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Old 02-06-2018, 07:29 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
6,681 posts, read 4,054,687 times
Reputation: 1116

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
GRANDPA

Come over to the Sports section and let us debate their. People there are a lot friendlier and do not take themselves quite so seriously. We have lively debates without nastiness and namecalling, and more than that we have fun.
We can debate anything you want over there.
I agree, granpa, if you want an emotionally healthy debate I would stay away from arguing deeply about existential topics. If, however, you want an intellectually healthy debate, then

Illinois State University, intellectual wellness

says
Quote:
Debate an issue with a friend, but choose the viewpoint opposite the one you hold.
Sounds tricky, right? That’s the point! Focusing attention on information that is different than your beliefs can improve intellectual wellness. Naturally, we tend to only focus our attention on opinions, beliefs, and facts that hold true to our viewpoints. When you expose the mind to opposing ideas, it expands the mind to grasp new information.
This means:
1. Find a friendly partner that is sympathetic towards you, as a person.
2. Think outside the box, not in the Ivory Tower. Maybe play devil's advocate, maybe play seeker.
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:08 AM
 
31,747 posts, read 7,404,103 times
Reputation: 4505
Sounds good to me. Debate things that don't matter all that much. I put five years on my life debating in the comments section of an Amazon CD review whether Bruckner's 9th should have a finale or not.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:31 PM
 
11,592 posts, read 12,475,904 times
Reputation: 8217
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Sounds good to me. Debate things that don't matter all that much. I put five years on my life debating in the comments section of an Amazon CD review whether Bruckner's 9th should have a finale or not.
what was decided? how did it turn out?
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:34 AM
 
3,180 posts, read 1,071,259 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
You better or he will torture you in fire for eternity, because you chose it and deserve it.
That's one of the problems that the Atheists ALWAYS get caught in.

The Atheists, much as they consider themselves more logical and intelligent, ALWAYS fail to look at the other side of the coin.

Why only look at "belief in God or else" side,,and completly ignore the other side of the coin, "believe in God, try to live a balanced life which is peaceful and morally cautious, and you will be rewarded" ?


Here is the crux, NO ONE has seen hell or heaven, and NO ONE actually knows 100% sure whether he is going to hell or heaven *BUT* .... EVERYONE knows for sure, 100% sure, that sooner or later, the bell will ring, their time will be up,,and the last curtain will fall on their eyes.

So some of us, believe that there is a God out there who created us, and we shall return to him. So they try to live their lives accordingly in hopes to be successful and be rewarded in the hereafter. They also try to avoid what's forbidden by their faith in order to avoid facing the consequences.

But the bottom line is the same, "No one actually knows", unless he has died, experienced it all and then came back to life to tell us whether there is a God or not, whether there is heaven and hell, or not?

And that's why it's called "faith"

Did you notice, you would have been in the same shoes as OP if YOUR doctor had advised YOU the same thing, and YOU had started the same debate by saying YOU did not believe in God?

The OP does not really "know" with 100% surety that a debate is good for him or not. But he has used his FAITH in the Doctor, and started the debate - and YOU would have done the same.

The pedophiles in the churches and the multi millionaire pastors who fly around in their pvt jets are imposters who use relgion to camouflage their personal and evil agendas. These wolves in the sheep's skin have got absolutely nothing to do with the message of God - So in fact, they are Atheists who prove with their actions that they don't believe in God. So deep down in their hearts they ACTUALLY believe (in contrast to what they preach to masses) is that there is no hell for their own evil acts, and they are not scared of any God.


And then there is the other group who may not be evil. They may also be peaceful and helpful people but they simply choose not to believe in God. They call themselves Atheists and/or agnostics.

Now, does God stop an Atheist or Agnostic couple from having a child birth because they are deniers? No. The rule of nature remains the same for all. But the Atheists don't really know for sure either; however, their clock also keeps on ticking.

So we all have formed our own faiths - we shall now wait, and we shall see.

Don't always consider only the HELL,,and make it synonymous with the existence of God.
There is also a flip side of the coin that is MUCH MORE important and has MUCH MORE incentive for the believers behind their faith in God.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,034 posts, read 8,105,109 times
Reputation: 5964
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
That's one of the problems that the Atheists ALWAYS get caught in.
You've been repeatedly corrected on this issue.

Atheists in general don't have nearly so much of a malfunction -- if any at all -- with people who live their PERSONAL faith in a PERSONAL manner, and leave the general public alone about it. Who don't attempt to influence public policy, or to proselytize, and so forth.

You are entitled to your own beliefs. Knock yourself out.

Atheists (with the exception of a very few outliers) do NOT philosophically claim to KNOW or to be able to PROVE there are no god(s). We simply don't BELIEVE there are any god(s).

As an agnostic atheist I don't think a defensible knowledge claim for OR against any deity can be taken. I don't waste my breath trying to convey knowledge that I don't and inherently can't possess about the (non)existence of any god(s), to other persons.

WHAT is so difficult about these concepts for you to grasp?

You are an intelligent person, so I can only conclude that your continued intransigence on this matter is willful. That it is for some reason important to you to resist that atheism is a considered belief, but rather, it's a knee-jerk reaction.

Maybe it's because you can't allow other people to have a considered belief that differs with yours, I don't know, and anymore, I don't care.

Continue to spread your bald-faced lies about others, that's for YOU to sleep with at night.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:39 PM
 
3,180 posts, read 1,071,259 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
You've been repeatedly corrected on this issue.

Atheists in general don't have nearly so much of a malfunction -- if any at all -- with people who live their PERSONAL faith in a PERSONAL manner, and leave the general public alone about it. Who don't attempt to influence public policy, or to proselytize, and so forth.

You are entitled to your own beliefs. Knock yourself out.

Atheists (with the exception of a very few outliers) do NOT philosophically claim to KNOW or to be able to PROVE there are no god(s). We simply don't BELIEVE there are any god(s).

As an agnostic atheist I don't think a defensible knowledge claim for OR against any deity can be taken. I don't waste my breath trying to convey knowledge that I don't and inherently can't possess about the (non)existence of any god(s), to other persons.

WHAT is so difficult about these concepts for you to grasp?

You are an intelligent person, so I can only conclude that your continued intransigence on this matter is willful. That it is for some reason important to you to resist that atheism is a considered belief, but rather, it's a knee-jerk reaction.

Maybe it's because you can't allow other people to have a considered belief that differs with yours, I don't know, and anymore, I don't care.

Continue to spread your bald-faced lies about others, that's for YOU to sleep with at night.
Let me try to repeat in plain English so you don't take it to heart.

"Many Atheists state (in a sarcastic way) that believers believe in God because they are scared of hell fire"

And my counter argument is, "NO, many believers believe in God because God has a promise and rewards for those who have tried to live a peaceful and morally cautious life.
Believers do not believe in God because they are scared of hell. But believers primarily are scared of Hell because they believe that their wrong actions and injustice, if done, to others could put them into trouble on the judgement day.

^^
Try reading it a few times and see if it syncs in?
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:20 AM
 
7,356 posts, read 6,334,070 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Let me try to repeat in plain English so you don't take it to heart.

"Many Atheists state (in a sarcastic way) that believers believe in God because they are scared of hell fire"

And my counter argument is, "NO, many believers believe in God because God has a promise and rewards for those who have tried to live a peaceful and morally cautious life.
Believers do not believe in God because they are scared of hell. But believers primarily are scared of Hell because they believe that their wrong actions and injustice, if done, to others could put them into trouble on the judgement day.

^^
Try reading it a few times and see if it syncs in?
I believe that both claims are valid. The carrot and the stick are both effective to a degree. I do know that, as I was growing up, the church used the stick primarily to scare children into believing.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,099 posts, read 3,968,619 times
Reputation: 3708
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtornado View Post
This might be the worst debate I've ever seen...
That's debatable.
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,726 posts, read 547,737 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
That's one of the problems that the Atheists ALWAYS get caught in.

The Atheists, much as they consider themselves more logical and intelligent, ALWAYS fail to look at the other side of the coin.

Why only look at "belief in God or else" side,,and completly ignore the other side of the coin, "believe in God, try to live a balanced life which is peaceful and morally cautious, and you will be rewarded" ?


Here is the crux, NO ONE has seen hell or heaven, and NO ONE actually knows 100% sure whether he is going to hell or heaven *BUT* .... EVERYONE knows for sure, 100% sure, that sooner or later, the bell will ring, their time will be up,,and the last curtain will fall on their eyes.

So some of us, believe that there is a God out there who created us, and we shall return to him. So they try to live their lives accordingly in hopes to be successful and be rewarded in the hereafter. They also try to avoid what's forbidden by their faith in order to avoid facing the consequences.

But the bottom line is the same, "No one actually knows", unless he has died, experienced it all and then came back to life to tell us whether there is a God or not, whether there is heaven and hell, or not?

And that's why it's called "faith"

Did you notice, you would have been in the same shoes as OP if YOUR doctor had advised YOU the same thing, and YOU had started the same debate by saying YOU did not believe in God?

The OP does not really "know" with 100% surety that a debate is good for him or not. But he has used his FAITH in the Doctor, and started the debate - and YOU would have done the same.

The pedophiles in the churches and the multi millionaire pastors who fly around in their pvt jets are imposters who use relgion to camouflage their personal and evil agendas. These wolves in the sheep's skin have got absolutely nothing to do with the message of God - So in fact, they are Atheists who prove with their actions that they don't believe in God. So deep down in their hearts they ACTUALLY believe (in contrast to what they preach to masses) is that there is no hell for their own evil acts, and they are not scared of any God.


And then there is the other group who may not be evil. They may also be peaceful and helpful people but they simply choose not to believe in God. They call themselves Atheists and/or agnostics.

Now, does God stop an Atheist or Agnostic couple from having a child birth because they are deniers? No. The rule of nature remains the same for all. But the Atheists don't really know for sure either; however, their clock also keeps on ticking.

So we all have formed our own faiths - we shall now wait, and we shall see.

Don't always consider only the HELL,,and make it synonymous with the existence of God.
There is also a flip side of the coin that is MUCH MORE important and has MUCH MORE incentive for the believers behind their faith in God.
Your honesty is very much refreshing. Thank you for admitting that you have faith and do not know there is an abramic god. I do not rule out the possibility of there being a higher being, but I do rule out the abrahamic God based on biblical characterizations of him and the errancy and irrationality of the bible itself. As for the Pascal's wager, it is not rational to invest such faith on little to no evidence. Based on the reality of our existence, I'm not optimistic of there being a wonderful afterlife, but I hold out a ounce of faith in the unknown.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
24,124 posts, read 12,928,617 times
Reputation: 9079
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Doctor says it would do me some good to engage in some healthy debate. I find the idea of debating God's existence somewhat distasteful but doctor's orders is doctor's orders and the Bible is the only thing I know anything about. I am a novice so please try not to steamroll over me on page one.

I think it's probably best if I take the theist position rather than the atheist position.

Uh... God exists and he's a really really nice guy and everyone should be thankful for everything he's done for us.
I suggest trying actually finding some people and engaging in real conversation.
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