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Old 02-11-2018, 04:36 AM
 
33,495 posts, read 8,468,940 times
Reputation: 4690

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You needn't apologize for the English at any rate. I always admire people who learn a second language (I tried often enough )

The content however is simply mocking and denouncing those whose views you disagree with.

I'm not In this one and the spiritual/mystical side outside any organized religion isn't my concern. And let's cace irt, Gurdieff, Oupensky and Blavatsky (and if I spelt any of those wrong, sue me) while being Quite a Think in my young days, are now no more of significance than Velikovsky, Cayce or Crowley.

I read a couple of things on Gurdieff. One argue how right he turned out to be, and the other what a fraud he was. The first thing I want to do when I hear claims of an undeniable miracle is verify it. In my experience, anyone whose organs are destroyed in a car -crash will not be talking about it later on. So that is perhaps something that can be looked at. And remember the more extraordinary the claim, the more it requires validation. If that can't be done, but is little more than a faith -claim, it does the credibility of the claimant no good at all. If the claim was made by the authority figure (1) turns out to be pretty much a fake, that fatally does for their credibility.

So perhaps you can provide some checkup links for this apparent miracle.

(1) let's say the Clear produced by L Rom Hubbard, or the 'Abraham papyrus' of Joseph Smith
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,448,811 times
Reputation: 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurdjieff View Post
First of all, i am first time here on the forum. i just came here by accident, and i saw that ukrkoz comment about GURDJIEV
i was devastated, i was simply crying how can you be so stupid and so blind? okay first of all you write gurdjiev instead of Gurdjieff, if you are from USA then i dont understand why you write gurdjiev instead, but thats not a problem. Your whole comment was pathethic and made me laugh histerically. If you wrote gurdjiev because you are RUSSIAN,GEORGIAN,ARMENIAN then you know that the Bull**** you wrote is a big lie, if you are american you are blind, even GURDJIEFF wrote about americans that they are blind in both ways.

ukrkoz wrote "Gurdjiev was illiterate man that simply happened to be enlightened after a crazy car accident that he drove himself into" - For real? just read Books written by GURDJIEFF he was getting top education when he was a child, he then got out of a school and was GETTING EDUCATED BY the Priest, because in that time education was really bad at place he happened to live. Car accident happened in his last years, he was nearly 61 years old, he was traveling for his WHOLE LIFE, made everything real from the age of 15-16. I really think that you are FROM USA BECAUSE YOU TALK THINGS THAT ARE NOT REAL ABOUT HIM, YOU ARE BLIND AND ILLETERATE FOR ME, if for you EDUCATION is math, physics, geography and chemistry - Gurdjieff had one of the best education for him in his early years, he was brought in SPIRITUALITY at the age of 12. That Car accident was a real miracle. He came out of the CAR he had only brain working and said " all my organs are destroyed, must create new ones" but i guess you did not know that. sad that you dont know things and still TALK

ukrkoz wrote also "He wrote one book and only he could understand what he wrote about" ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? 1 BOOK i guess you are talking about Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson? I have read it, and it is understandable it is just a methapore and many Characters are in disguise *Stalin and Nietszhe* okay i understand at that point that you are clown but we will still continue!

ukrkoz also wrote "I was told there are Gurdjiev type groups on East Coast. I doubt though as his methods are rather not for Americans. Show me one who will bear digging hole and covering it back again with just dug out dirt - for 3 non stop days and nights. Plus, man was constantly drunk and smoked like a shoemaker. He's not quite your typical guru type" ---------------------- HAHAHA are you for real? PLEASE READ BOOKS And everything, yes methods were unbearable for the pathethic americans like you who are SLAVES, BLINDED SLAVES. I laughed at your comment and also felt miserable for the greatest GURU ALIVE FOREVER in EAST! he is immortal and you are just a retard, i feel sorry for you, you can contact me at any form and we can talk more if you decide. IF YOU LIVE IN EAST but i doubt you do, i will come and see you in person and we can talk about it! i will even purchase TICKETS. i just wanna see the face that wrote SUCH bull****!

P.S 9,123 posts, read 12,156,092 times REPUTATION 9746
I really feel sorry for all the people who had to read your ****ty reviews about people you know 0.001% about!
also if anybody reads my comment sorry about my english, i am from a country that gurdjieff lived for most of his life! =)
*Long pause*

(immediately becomes a disciple of Gurdjiev)

(begins generating new organs)
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:58 PM
 
9,684 posts, read 13,575,225 times
Reputation: 10486
Гео́ргий Ива́нович Гурджи́ев = Georgiy Ivanovich Gurdjiev. Not George Gurdjieff.


Early influences on him included his father, a carpenter and amateur ashik or bardic poet,[12] and the priest of the town's Russian church, Dean Borsh, a family friend. The young Gurdjieff avidly read Russian-language scientific literature.[13] Influenced by these writings, and having witnessed a number of phenomena that he could not explain, he formed the conviction that there existed a hidden truth not to be found in science or in mainstream religion.

In early adulthood, according to his own account Gurdjieff's curiosity led him to travel to Central Asia, Egypt, Iran, India,

account of his wanderings appears in his book Meetings with Remarkable Men. J. G. Bennett researched his sources extensively and suggested that these characters were symbolic of the three types of people to whom Gurdjieff referred.
Bennett, one of the two most prominent Gurdjiev's disciples, was the one who dug the hole. Physical exhaustion was one of Gurdjiev's methods. He used it as a way to uncover in disciple access to the cosmic energy.
Sorry, but a carpenter, orthodox priest and unknown other masters somehow do not cut as background for high spiritual training and education, like, say, Gautam had. Gurdjiev WAS a self made spiritual guru. this happens. Usually, in men that dedicated multiple previous lives to the Great Path and, eventually, collected enough to become enlightened in an existence.

Gurdjieff wrote that he supported himself during his travels with odd jobs and trading schemes (one of which he described as dyeing hedgerow birds yellow and selling them as canaries[18]). On his reappearance, as far as the historical record is concerned, the ragged wanderer had transformed into a well-heeled businessmanPersonally, I'd rather take a PhD in Philosophy and Hindu History, than such credentials. Be it noted, I am not questioning Gurdjiev's spiritual mastery. I am only pointing that this is - what's the right term? - un-guru like, or something? Though nothing wrong with that also, Sadhguru owned several prosperous businesses. It's me, I have little respect to spiritual leaders that have their fingers in money. Especially, not quite honestly earned.

In 1924, while driving alone from Paris to Fontainebleau, he had a near-fatal car accident. Nursed by his wife and mother, he made a slow and painful recovery against medical expectation. Still convalescent, he formally "disbanded" his institute on 26 August (in fact, he dispersed only his "less dedicated" pupils), which he explained as an undertaking "in the future, under the pretext of different worthy reasons, to remove from my eyesight all those who by this or that make my life too comfortable".[30]

After recovering, he began writing Beelzebub's Tales, the first part of All and Everything in a mixture of Armenian and Russian. The book was deliberately convoluted and obscure, forcing the reader to "work" to find its meaning. He also composed it according to his own principles, writing in noisy cafes to force a greater effort of concentration.

Gurdjieff was in New York from November 1925 to the spring of 1926, when he succeeded in raising over $100,000.[31] He was to make six or seven trips to the US, where he alienated a number of people with his brash and impudent demands for money.

Ahem.....

Visitors recalled the pantry, stocked with an extraordinary collection of eastern delicacies, which served as his inner sanctum, and the suppers he held with elaborate toasts to "idiots"[34] in vodka and cognac. Having cut a physically impressive figure for many years, he was now distinctly paunchy. His teaching was now far removed from the original "system", being based on proverbs, jokes and personal interaction

His discussions of "orthodoxhydooraki" and "heterodoxhydooraki"—orthodox fools and heterodox fools, from the Russian word durak (fool)—position him as a critic of religious distortion and, in turn, as a target for criticism from some within those traditions. Gurdjieff has been interpreted by some, Ouspensky among others, to have had a total disregard for the value of mainstream religion, philanthropic work and the value of doing right or wrong in general.[77] Gurdjieff's former students who have criticized him argue that, despite his seeming total lack of pretension to any kind of "guru holiness," in many anecdotes his behavior displays the unsavory and impure character of a man who was a cynical manipulator of his followers

According to Osho, the Gurdjieff system is incomplete, drawing from Dervish sources inimical to Kundalini.

Though Bhagvan Radjnish dedicates quite some attention to Gurdjiev and his techniques, especially those dedicated to literally breaking down his disciples. Through that exactly method, several of them attained, including Uspenskiy (yes, that's the proper way to literate his Russian name) and Bennett.

In parallel with other spiritual traditions, Gurdjieff taught that a person must expend considerable effort to effect the transformation that leads to awakening. The effort that is put into practice Gurdjieff referred to as "The Work" or "Work on oneself"

The generally intellectual and middle-class types who were attracted to Gurdjieff's teaching often found the Prieuré's spartan accommodation and emphasis on hard labour in the grounds disconcerting. Gurdjieff was putting into practice his teaching that people need to develop physically, emotionally and intellectually, hence the mixture of lectures, music, dance, and manual work.


n addition to the physical hardships, his personal behaviour towards pupils could be ferocious: Gurdjieff was standing by his bed in a state of what seemed to me to be completely uncontrolled fury. He was raging at Orage, who stood impassively, and very pale, framed in one of the windows...



Yes, Mordant:

[i]" was looking at a dying man. Even this is not enough to express it. It was a dead man, a corpse, that came out of the car; and yet it walked. I was shivering like someone who sees a ghost."
With iron-like tenacity, he managed to gain his room, where he sat down and said: "Now all organs are destroyed. Must make new". Then, he turned to Bennett, smiling: "Tonight you come dinner. I must make body work".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff
Ok, enough of this, as I wish not to offend anyone's holy image of George. That he was a spiritual man, that I do not question. That he influenced others also. But that was HE doing THAT. Just like any other true master does. After student develops into a disciple, then progresses into a devotee, then and only then a master may and can pour into him or her. But that requires live light of that master. When master is gone, and he didn't leave a complete replacement behind - his teaching is gone with him. Its spirit. Its flame. Only footprints in the sand are left. Seen as such by some. Idolized by others. Saraha traveled for 16 years to find his disciple he could pass his flame onto. His disciple found his vessel to fill. But thereafter, none more were found and that teaching died out. After only 3 people.
But to OP .... Does that sound like a general guru type to become popular in the modern days America, or even world? AGAIN, I am not questioning his methods. It is up to a master, how to behave, how to treat, what to do. even if he has to wound someone. Only master knows, what exactly opens devotee mind.
But, to OP. Will you go and BE with such a man? As in - surrender to him completely and unconditionally?
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:51 AM
 
2 posts, read 384 times
Reputation: 11
Okay i saw replies, and i was really happy that i made you research more about Gurdjieff!
i laughed at mordent comment! made my day haha, but now real TALK

TRANSPONDER thank you for your kind response. i wont sue anyone dont worry
you people just use Wikipedia links for real? do you think you will find wikipedia useful? it is just a gibberish, yes gurdjieff or gurdjiev as you like ( ) made a lot of money with fraud schemes but that doesnt mean anything.

Gurdjieff left no one, ouspensky was not the real spiritual teacher. if gurdjieff was still alive then he would be the greatest spiritual teach alive. i dont use wikipedia links haha it is not reliable for me! i know 5 languages and i live in a city where gurdjieff estabilished his first institute. i know all the materials and i have seen many writings by GEORGE IVANOVICH GURDJIEFF and they are pretty spectacular. i was trolling you guys i was not that mad at all, but please never trust wikipedia fully, go to your local library and read books, that is better. as i mentioned above i know 5 languages and have read all gurdjieff books and writings *unknown to mass population too* in Russian,Armenian and many more! they are pretty extraordinary! as transponder said about Velikovsky, Cayce or Crowley i dont know them, i know only Crowley but i will expand my knowledge too, thanks i am 18 btw and dont know many spiritual teachers you wrote there, but i know many others too, i have even had spiritual teacher!

If you want to discuss any other things please feel free so we can talk i love talking with people!
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:29 PM
 
12,320 posts, read 12,960,222 times
Reputation: 8849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurdjieff View Post
Okay i saw replies, and i was really happy that i made you research more about Gurdjieff!
i laughed at mordent comment! made my day haha, but now real TALK

TRANSPONDER thank you for your kind response. i wont sue anyone dont worry
you people just use Wikipedia links for real? do you think you will find wikipedia useful? it is just a gibberish, yes gurdjieff or gurdjiev as you like ( ) made a lot of money with fraud schemes but that doesnt mean anything.

Gurdjieff left no one, ouspensky was not the real spiritual teacher. if gurdjieff was still alive then he would be the greatest spiritual teach alive. i dont use wikipedia links haha it is not reliable for me! i know 5 languages and i live in a city where gurdjieff estabilished his first institute. i know all the materials and i have seen many writings by GEORGE IVANOVICH GURDJIEFF and they are pretty spectacular. i was trolling you guys i was not that mad at all, but please never trust wikipedia fully, go to your local library and read books, that is better. as i mentioned above i know 5 languages and have read all gurdjieff books and writings *unknown to mass population too* in Russian,Armenian and many more! they are pretty extraordinary! as transponder said about Velikovsky, Cayce or Crowley i dont know them, i know only Crowley but i will expand my knowledge too, thanks i am 18 btw and dont know many spiritual teachers you wrote there, but i know many others too, i have even had spiritual teacher!

If you want to discuss any other things please feel free so we can talk i love talking with people!
what personally have you found helpful, inspiring, powerful in his teachings? What stands out for you?
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Land of the Tonkawa and Kiowa
3,640 posts, read 1,340,416 times
Reputation: 4930
I don't want to answer for him above, but I've found it inspiring that Gurdjieff visited and explored many countries, cultures, and religions to seek what is in common between them and uniting them. He didn't promote any particular religion, but sought to find what can help and be beneficial to all beliefs and all peoples. (Ouspensky and Nicoll continued and developed his studies as well.)

The other area was his deep studies and focus on understanding our minds, and seeking to separate what is our environmental conditioning versus what's beyond it all. I.e. trying to remove the human conditioning and programming that we all face and encounter 24/7, to get to higher spiritual knowledge that is outside of our grounded and worldly existence. They aren't insights reached through our 5 usual senses, or what we read or hear. They directly connect with our soul/spirit. Sort of a 6th sense, sense of the spiritual and God.

Those two areas of study and insight do not necessarily guarantee spiritual advancement, but studying it can be quite motivating. Certainly worth the effort to "go beyond" and strive for a higher way of living. And again, his research and teachings do not interfere with one's existing beliefs. They are sort of a "frosting" to add to and enrich wherever one is currently. It's sort of the difference between sticking with average meals, or adding gourmet steak to one's plate with fine wine. There's so much to life's potential that we never access. And that's in spiritual, physical, social, mental, and other ways.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 02-23-2018 at 11:57 AM..
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