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Old 02-09-2018, 10:48 AM
Status: "Feeding stray koalas" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Wherever I am
1,822 posts, read 633,822 times
Reputation: 2348

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I'm surprised to not see much in the way of threads/discussion on the work and writings of these individuals. And they do belong here - as spiritual seekers - rather than in the Philosophy forum.

Writings that tend to be brought up include P.D. Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous and Tertium Organum, and Maurice Nicoll's The New Man, Living Time, and The Mark. G.I. Gurdjieff's writings are apparently more difficult to follow. J.G. Bennett is another related writer.

Is no one here acquainted with the life work of these individuals?

I've found their work and writings augment and enhance my existing beliefs. In other words, they do not interfere with, but rather add to, with general and yet profound observations.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
13,961 posts, read 7,801,220 times
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I have to admit I've never heard of any of these writers before this moment.

There are millions of writers I could spend time digesting so the first thing I do when someone commends an author to me that I'm unfamiliar with is to try to get a sense of whether their reasoning process is tethered in some way to reality. Looking just at Ouspensky for example, his dabbling in theosophy is not promising. I'm sure he's popular because he's not just a run of the mill esotericist, but one who was also a mathematician. It lends a sense of credibility to being an esoteric, which is essentially, exploration of fringe ideas about reality and meaning. Some people think that a mathematician is far less likely to be wrong or misled; this is not true.

It appears that at the end of his life he was dissatisfied that he had found what he was looking for, although, his journey may nevertheless be interesting.

All of which is not to say I'd be disinterested in at least surveying his thinking, but it wouldn't be a high priority nor would I have very high expectations. The main appeal of this particular author is that he's curious and persistent, and I respect those qualities. He's apt to have some good ideas, if only by accident. And I'm all for learning about how someone ELSE wasted THEIR life, it saves me the trouble ;-)
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:46 AM
Status: "Feeding stray koalas" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Wherever I am
1,822 posts, read 633,822 times
Reputation: 2348
Thanks mordant. These guys were/are certainly not obscure, and their work has been respected worldwide. But with the trends in this country over the past decades, I can see how they might get buried in the course of discussion as more lame and mundane topics/persons compete for attention. These guys had more of an old-world approach to seeking, learning, and observing, with strong attention and reflection. That goes against the trends of modern mankind, especially in America, with our devotion to fast-food media like Facebook, cable news, and Hollywood gossip. And it's somewhat related to trying to hear a quiet inner "voice" in the midst of a growing barrage of noise and confusion.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 02-09-2018 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
13,961 posts, read 7,801,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Thanks mordant. These guys were/are certainly not obscure, and their work has been respected worldwide. But with the trends in this country over the past decades, I can see how they might get buried in the course of discussion as more lame and mundane topics/persons compete for attention. These guys had more of an old-world approach to seeking, learning, and observing, with strong attention and reflection. That goes against the trends of modern mankind, especially in America, with our devotion to fast-food media like Facebook, cable news, and Hollywood gossip. And it's somewhat related to trying to hear a quiet inner "voice" in the midst of a growing barrage of noise and confusion.
I have no problem with what you're saying here. Social media are definitely changing how people think for the worse. The gentleman who devised the FaceBook "like" button / system now deeply regrets it and has come to believe that the constant endorphin "hit" from getting "likes" is literally turning people into lab mice, mentally speaking.

I fight constantly for the personal space to think in depth about topics and my presence on FaceBook-style social media is pathetic by design.

My basic problem is that my iPad has rather long list of tomes I have yet to work through; on a given day I'm lucky to have an hour to immerse myself in a careful read.

Sometimes I think the main motivation to my eventual retirement will be the desire to have more time for such things ... as I'm fortunate enough to have the sort of work that, in isolation, I'd do to my dying day because I enjoy it so much.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:52 PM
 
2,827 posts, read 1,601,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
I'm surprised to not see much in the way of threads/discussion on the work and writings of these individuals. And they do belong here - as spiritual seekers - rather than in the Philosophy forum.

Writings that tend to be brought up include P.D. Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous and Tertium Organum, and Maurice Nicoll's The New Man, Living Time, and The Mark. G.I. Gurdjieff's writings are apparently more difficult to follow. J.G. Bennett is another related writer.

Is no one here acquainted with the life work of these individuals?

I've found their work and writings augment and enhance my existing beliefs. In other words, they do not interfere with, but rather add to, with general and yet profound observations.
Uhhhh, actually no. I'm more acquainted with Tillich The Courage to Be and Dynamics of Faith, Max Lucado, and Deepak Chopra.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:10 AM
 
35,344 posts, read 23,435,289 times
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I am very familiar with Ouspensky, Priestly, Dunne, and Nicoll and I dealt with their views on Time extensively. There is a significant body of literature devoted to attempts to explain time. The most reasonable and acceptable explanations for my purposes can be found in relativity theory, especially the contributions by Minkowski. The more esoteric explanations are to be found among the works of so-called "time-theorists," such as Ouspensky, Dunne, Nicoll or Priestley. But Relativity theory refutes their work, in whole or in part, on most aspects. In general, these "specialists" have taken an abstract creation that describes the core dimension of all "event entities" and tried to make it an entity with its own dimensions. Ouspensky and Priestley ascribed three dimensions to time. Dunne was a little more conservative and only ascribed two dimensions to time. Essentially, their attempts to treat time as the fourth dimension went off the rails for me when they tried to assign dimensions to time itself creating the silly idea of "timing" the motion of time along a time length to determine the "speed of time."
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:42 PM
Status: "Feeding stray koalas" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Wherever I am
1,822 posts, read 633,822 times
Reputation: 2348
Thanks MysticPhD. You're right about their discussions of time. I've found them very interesting. Another big topic is the "4th Way" or "work" studies, as started by Gurdijieff. That was sort of what I was alluding to more than the time discussions. I've heard of Priestly and Dunne, but haven't investigated their writings yet. Am looking forward to that though in the future.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
13,961 posts, read 7,801,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Uhhhh, actually no. I'm more acquainted with Tillich The Courage to Be and Dynamics of Faith, Max Lucado, and Deepak Chopra.
Wow. The sublime, the ridiculous and the incoherent. It explains a lot.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:43 PM
 
9,127 posts, read 12,175,263 times
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Well, Gurdjiev was illiterate man that simply happened to be enlightened after a crazy car accident that he drove himself into. He was a self made mystic, a self made guru with very original approach to treating his adepts.
He wrote one book and only he could understand what he wrote about. What is absolutely correct, as neither could Sukayamuni explain to others many things a buddha experienced. It can only be understood by one who experienced same.
I was told there are Gurdjiev type groups on East Coast. I doubt though as his methods are rather not for Americans. Show me one who will bear digging hole and covering it back again with just dug out dirt - for 3 non stop days and nights. Plus, man was constantly drunk and smoked like a shoemaker. He's not quite your typical guru type. PDU almost quit him several times. He was unbearable to be with.
He is not marketable, so to speak. Simply look at the man. Crazy was in his face. But so was Bodhidharma.

Even black and white picture says - man is not in this world.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:29 AM
 
2 posts, read 41 times
Reputation: 10
First of all, i am first time here on the forum. i just came here by accident, and i saw that ukrkoz comment about GURDJIEV
i was devastated, i was simply crying how can you be so stupid and so blind? okay first of all you write gurdjiev instead of Gurdjieff, if you are from USA then i dont understand why you write gurdjiev instead, but thats not a problem. Your whole comment was pathethic and made me laugh histerically. If you wrote gurdjiev because you are RUSSIAN,GEORGIAN,ARMENIAN then you know that the Bull**** you wrote is a big lie, if you are american you are blind, even GURDJIEFF wrote about americans that they are blind in both ways.

ukrkoz wrote "Gurdjiev was illiterate man that simply happened to be enlightened after a crazy car accident that he drove himself into" - For real? just read Books written by GURDJIEFF he was getting top education when he was a child, he then got out of a school and was GETTING EDUCATED BY the Priest, because in that time education was really bad at place he happened to live. Car accident happened in his last years, he was nearly 61 years old, he was traveling for his WHOLE LIFE, made everything real from the age of 15-16. I really think that you are FROM USA BECAUSE YOU TALK THINGS THAT ARE NOT REAL ABOUT HIM, YOU ARE BLIND AND ILLETERATE FOR ME, if for you EDUCATION is math, physics, geography and chemistry - Gurdjieff had one of the best education for him in his early years, he was brought in SPIRITUALITY at the age of 12. That Car accident was a real miracle. He came out of the CAR he had only brain working and said " all my organs are destroyed, must create new ones" but i guess you did not know that. sad that you dont know things and still TALK

ukrkoz wrote also "He wrote one book and only he could understand what he wrote about" ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? 1 BOOK i guess you are talking about Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson? I have read it, and it is understandable it is just a methapore and many Characters are in disguise *Stalin and Nietszhe* okay i understand at that point that you are clown but we will still continue!

ukrkoz also wrote "I was told there are Gurdjiev type groups on East Coast. I doubt though as his methods are rather not for Americans. Show me one who will bear digging hole and covering it back again with just dug out dirt - for 3 non stop days and nights. Plus, man was constantly drunk and smoked like a shoemaker. He's not quite your typical guru type" ---------------------- HAHAHA are you for real? PLEASE READ BOOKS And everything, yes methods were unbearable for the pathethic americans like you who are SLAVES, BLINDED SLAVES. I laughed at your comment and also felt miserable for the greatest GURU ALIVE FOREVER in EAST! he is immortal and you are just a retard, i feel sorry for you, you can contact me at any form and we can talk more if you decide. IF YOU LIVE IN EAST but i doubt you do, i will come and see you in person and we can talk about it! i will even purchase TICKETS. i just wanna see the face that wrote SUCH bull****!

P.S 9,123 posts, read 12,156,092 times REPUTATION 9746
I really feel sorry for all the people who had to read your ****ty reviews about people you know 0.001% about!
also if anybody reads my comment sorry about my english, i am from a country that gurdjieff lived for most of his life! =)
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