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Old 03-25-2018, 08:58 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,065,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
The head of psychiatry in England said faith based efficacy is the best kept secret in psychiatry.
If the opposite was true it would be on the front page of the guardian
Is the head of psychiatry in the Anglican-Secular Kingdom of England using the word "efficacy" to mean "effectiveness" or to mean "job satisfactory ratings"? What does it even mean, except that they push the patient's own religion and religious-upbringing and socialization habits back on them? Come back to me when properly lying to them wouldn't also work.

Quote:
"We know that in Muslim populations people can get quicker results from faith-sensitive therapies that have been tested elsewhere in the world. They tend to use religion as a coping resource more than people in other religious groups."http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38932954
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:01 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiethegreat View Post
It's not,it's a quote attributed to Albert Einstein who dreamt some of his theories, there is divine information through the intuition.I am not science minded at all,though I use to love molecular genetics, but I have had dreams of scientific theorems diagrams etc that I was not able to understand.
Ah yes, I've experienced similar dreams as yours and also have found myself to be quite thoughtful and highly reasonable in my dreams. They say a restful brain will have less stress to mess with it.
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:18 PM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,863,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiethegreat View Post
It's not,it's a quote attributed to Albert Einstein who dreamt some of his theories, there is divine information through the intuition.I am not science minded at all,though I use to love molecular genetics, but I have had dreams of scientific theorems diagrams etc that I was not able to understand.
I wonder if anyone has ever studied Einstein to find out how he originally got his inspiration. That would also follow Dr Morse's studies in NDE, some patients' experiences leading to advanced knowledge in science and math.
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:18 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,860 posts, read 6,322,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Is the head of psychiatry in the Anglican-Secular Kingdom of England using the word "efficacy" to mean "effectiveness" or to mean "job satisfactory ratings"? What does it even mean, except that they push the patient's own religion and religious-upbringing and socialization habits back on them? Come back to me when properly lying to them wouldn't also work.
Jones' claim seems suspect to me; however, self efficacy is one of the indicators if someone will overcome. You have to believe it's possible or you won't make it. I'm assuming they're borrowing efficacy from another source like a higher power because they lack self efficacy at the time.
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:59 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,077,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiethegreat View Post
The rational mind is a faithful servant that is true, but the intuitive mind is a sacred gift.
We have a society that honours the servant but has forgotten the gift.
I like this characterization. Intuition IS an important outcome of our right brain sensitivities that form the basis for our contact with the spiritual aspects of our reality, Katie. It is the brain sensing stimuli and interpreting them that constitutes our normal experience of reality. The thing to understand is that the brain is NOT limited to the information available from our typical senses. We have evidence that the brain also interprets information directly from fields in the environment. The evidence that the brain interprets artificially produced EM fields as a presence or an OBE is instructive. There is no such thing as "outside" within the unified field it is only a sense experience interpreted by our physical brain. By disconnecting from our usual sensory system, we access those parts of our reality that are masked by our focus on the usual senses. Dreams are such disconnected brain states and real intuitions often manifest in them.

There are several issues that must be understood about receiving information about reality through the "other" brain states not directly connected to our usual sensory system, as in deep meditation. If you have not developed the self-discipline necessary to retain conscious control over our inner drives and urges there seems to be a natural blocking of access. It seems that an uncontrolled access can literally wreak havoc with our mental health, as "bad trips" by undisciplined experimenters with LSD and other hallucinogens attest to. It is why I have avoided ever using any substance that alters my conscious control over my mind.

The second issue involves differences in our right brain sensitivities that can be blocked by left brain skepticism. The emphasis on the importance of belief in spiritual matters is a legitimate one because a lack of sincerity and openness in belief creates blockage as well. If you are one of the naturally sensitive, Katie, do not allow the skepticism of the world to interfere with your development of it. Of course, the above caution about acquiring the necessary discipline applies to any such development of your natural abilities.

Any concern over a natural blockage can be overcome by discipline and absolute sincerity and openness, as with truly devout believers in God (NOT a religion!) Each individual will "notice" the manifestations of spiritual contact differently (unlike the canned hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo the various "mystery schools" are selling). Do not get caught up in the nonsense of Kundalini, Chakras, or any other crapola. Utter sincerity and desire is the only requirement and it cannot be faked, willed, wished for or otherwise forced to exist. We do not control and cannot demand how God will manifest His presence to us. I certainly didn't because I was seeking Nirvana, NOT God. Sincerity and consistency are the criteria that characterize a truly spiritual experience.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:50 AM
 
22,178 posts, read 19,217,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I like this characterization. Intuition IS an important outcome of our right brain sensitivities that form the basis for our contact with the spiritual aspects of our reality, Katie. It is the brain sensing stimuli and interpreting them that constitutes our normal experience of reality. The thing to understand is that the brain is NOT limited to the information available from our typical senses. We have evidence that the brain also interprets information directly from fields in the environment. The evidence that the brain interprets artificially produced EM fields as a presence or an OBE is instructive. There is no such thing as "outside" within the unified field it is only a sense experience interpreted by our physical brain. By disconnecting from our usual sensory system, we access those parts of our reality that are masked by our focus on the usual senses. Dreams are such disconnected brain states and real intuitions often manifest in them.

There are several issues that must be understood about receiving information about reality through the "other" brain states not directly connected to our usual sensory system, as in deep meditation. If you have not developed the self-discipline necessary to retain conscious control over our inner drives and urges there seems to be a natural blocking of access. It seems that an uncontrolled access can literally wreak havoc with our mental health, as "bad trips" by undisciplined experimenters with LSD and other hallucinogens attest to. It is why I have avoided ever using any substance that alters my conscious control over my mind.

The second issue involves differences in our right brain sensitivities that can be blocked by left brain skepticism. The emphasis on the importance of belief in spiritual matters is a legitimate one because a lack of sincerity and openness in belief creates blockage as well. If you are one of the naturally sensitive, Katie, do not allow the skepticism of the world to interfere with your development of it. Of course, the above caution about acquiring the necessary discipline applies to any such development of your natural abilities.

Any concern over a natural blockage can be overcome by discipline and absolute sincerity and openness, as with truly devout believers in God (NOT a religion!) Each individual will "notice" the manifestations of spiritual contact differently (unlike the canned hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo the various "mystery schools" are selling). Do not get caught up in the nonsense of Kundalini, Chakras, or any other crapola. Utter sincerity and desire is the only requirement and it cannot be faked, willed, wished for or otherwise forced to exist. We do not control and cannot demand how God will manifest His presence to us. I certainly didn't because I was seeking Nirvana, NOT God. Sincerity and consistency are the criteria that characterize a truly spiritual experience.
Dreams are not intuition.
And dreams are not reliable. Because they are totally disconnected from reality and not grounded in reality.

Intuition is not dreams.
Intuition is not "disconnected" from our "regular" senses it is in addition to them.

If a person disconnects from their regular senses they are blind deaf mute. That is not intuition.

And speaking of "blockages" and "obstacles" a huge one in the post above is "truly devout believers in God NOT a religion" as if they can't both occur together.

Another blockage and obstacle evident in the post above is the blatant arrogance of belittling and dismissing entire fields of knowledge and information not understood wirh the Archie Bunker-esque pejoratives of "crapola" "mumbo jumbo" "nonsense" "hocus pocus."

And this from someone who freely admits to "seeking Nirvana." And claims to " have developed the self-discipline necessary to retain conscious control over inner drives and urges." Except for the base urge to use pejoratives and the undisciplined arrogance of name calling and ridiculing and intolerance for that which they do not even understand.

A person immediately disqualifies themself from intelligent rational discourse when they stoop to pejoratives. It is the identifying behavior and crude badge of ignorance, and shows glaring lack of not only discipline and "sincerity and openness," but intolerance for other schools of thought, and glaring lack of respect and lack of dignity as well.

If a person can't master the basic discipline of what comes flying out of their mouth no one is going to take what they say seriously. Any of it.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-26-2018 at 06:08 AM..
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:57 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,577,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Dreams are not intuition.
And dreams are not reliable.

Intuition is not dreams.
Intuition is not "disconnected" from our "regular" senses it is in addition to them.

If a person disconnects from their regular senses they are blind deaf mute. That is not intuition.

And speaking of "blockages" and "obstacles" a huge one in the post above is "truly devout believers in God NOT a religion" as if they can't both occur together.

Another blockage and obstacle evident in the post above is the blatant arrogance of belittling and dismissing entire fields of knowledge and information not understood wirh the Archie Bunker-esque pejoratives of "crapola" "mumbo jumbo" "nonsense" "hocus pocus."

(And this from someone who freely admits to "seeking Nirvana." And claims to " have developed the self-discipline necessary to retain conscious control over inner drives and urges." Except for the base urge to use pejoratives and the undisciplined arrogance of name calling and ridiculing and intolerance for that which they do not even understand.

A person immediately disqualifies themself from intelligent rational discourse when they stoop to pejoratives. It is the identifying behavior and crude badge of ignorance and not only lack of discipline but lack of respect and lack of dignity as well.
"religion" is like weather and the sun is like "god". they can occur together. Like a sunny day and the sun appear to occur at the same time.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:45 AM
 
Location: USA
18,492 posts, read 9,159,286 times
Reputation: 8525
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
The head of psychiatry in England said faith based efficacy is the best kept secret in psychiatry.
If the opposite was true it would be on the front page of the guardian
It’s a darned shame.

Hopefully that kind of thing doesn’t catch on here.
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:07 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,577,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
It’s a darned shame.

Hopefully that kind of thing doesn’t catch on here.
basically what they do freak is trick the person into helping themselves so they can become functional again.

If they are functional, then the placebo worked. and maybe they will function so good that the good parts of the religion remain and the intrusive parts go away.

Regardless how you feel, its a logical approach given what we are working with.
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Old 03-26-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiethegreat View Post
I think maybe he meant intuition, the human calculator guy who I also watched years ago,he is seeing images in his head there's an element of intuitive receptive knowledge there.Im not wowed by it he can be replaced by a two dollar calculator, I am more stunned by poetic genius that machines can't mirror.
I see instinct and intuition as related though not the same. Instinct is a survival reaction and intuition is the problem -solving instinct. Other animals have it, too. There is nothing supernatural about it, and that we have a very convoluted brain (which means that even though smaller than some others, it does far, far more) no more means invoking woo than the migratory instinct or colour changing animals. Like a lot of instinctive and problem soling in animals who cant
possibly have worked it out, this was unexplainable, until genetics and DNA encoded survival instinct was better known.

Now, intuition gives us information broadly in ways we don't understand. Or provided answers and we don't know where they came from. Easy to say 'some supernatural source'. But the problem is that the answers are not always the same for everyone (though of course one can claim that everyone else must be wrong) and the answers may not always by right. But one can always forget when they were wrong and just count the hits or simply deny being wrong.

I need hardly reiterate faith based denialism is not evidence for the supernatural, and the unexplained in simply not explained. it is not evidence of anything divine.

Thus the current flavours of the month for God or at least a supernatural force of some kind (mental experineces, pretty much covers it) do not stack up as sound evidence and more than the lack of an explanation for the origins of life or the universe are a good argument for some sorta creator -god.
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