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Old Today, 10:47 AM
5,575 posts, read 2,182,379 times
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Well, glad to know that you know better.
Do you have any evidence to counter what I addressed as to what evil means to a non believer?

Why is it that theists are allowed to state what atheists think or mean but atheists are not allowed to say what atheists think and mean? Just because there are words in the Holy books does not mean that only religious folks get to use words.

Perhaps take my post as a way to learn what others mean with a word. Learning is good!
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Old Today, 10:48 AM
Location: City-Data Forum
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
hmmm , by your definition of a “good God” providing “justice”,

How should a “good God” treat those who denied his existence, rejected his message, crossed the boundaries, and spent all their resources and time (given to them by God) in living a life outside of how God suggested them to live?
Is there another definition... of "good God" and "justice" that you prefer for yourself?

A good God would treat his weak enemies and ignorant attackers kindly and overwhelmingly good. Everyone would be happy, depending on that God's limitations and areas of weakness or lack of plenty.

Why would having a human limitation (thus needing to reward cronies with sex to gain social strength) be a good thing for a proposed Immortal Timeless being? I understand that a false religion would need it since societies are human constructs and have human limitations, but a powerful god should not need or require such things.

Regardless, how should a "good human" treat those who denied his existence? Let them die? Let them suffer?
Is a good God not a hero? Does a true hero need supplication and thanks?

Can a god endure and succeed through countless rejection? Can a good god suffer boundaries and breaks? What sort of things can a good God handle, emotionally speaking?

How should ANY "good" sentient being act? Are human limitations like insecurity, procrastination, limited patience, and vindictiveness good in a proposed very powerful god?
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Old Today, 11:07 AM
Location: City-Data Forum
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
No, it’s only a logical assertion.

If by definition, evil is a supernatural force then those Atheists who believe in the existence of evil are like someone who believes in the existence of fish but not water.

But it cannot be logical, because it "does not follow."

First of all, a lot of people use the English word "evil" without giving it a supernatural context. So your premise that it can only have a supernatural context is invalid.

And most importantly, ripping logical conclusion FROM atheism is like trying to find logical conclusions from ideas about BigFoot certainly or probably not existing. What further details than "they don't think BigFoot is likely to exist" can you have from only knowing this one thing about these people?

I've met very uneducated atheists who believe only in amassing money/value to use and protect themselves with... and yet still believe in ghosts or the "perhaps usefulness" of Christian-Santaria magic talismans especially when they were emotional gifts.

See? I used the term- “sort of antonym” and you based your argument as “complete opposite”/

You used a very rudimentary logic nonetheless.
Here it is in simple words.

By faith, God created evil.
So evil exists because God created it.
God would still exist if there was no creation of evil.
I'm pretty sure I wrote "either complete opposite or same-CATEGORICAL opposite" somewhere in that post. "evil as the left hand of the [Deluded] God"
Having "sort of antonym" as such only mean "some type of different yet the same" is rather not very helpful or clarifying.

What is "rudimentary logic" which would always make it "weaker" than convoluted logic?
Isn't "rudimentary" logic the aim of all clarifying philosophy?

Premise 1: By belief, God created evil.
Premise 2: Evil exists thanks to the Father and Creator of Evil.
Premise 3: God would still exist if evil was not created and did not exist.

Conclusion: The existence of evil only proves God if you think God is the Creator and Sustainer of Evil.
Same with the trees and the dust and the stink.
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Old Today, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I think this is the main purpose of this forum. We should be able to openly discuss our believes and our ideas with the intention of exchanging information and trying to better understand each other. However, as we know, it doesn't always happen. We get into a hosing down contest which leads to nowhere.

So getting back to the top, I would like to respond to two of your points.
First, the green text above.

The keyword here is "transaction".
First, you had a need/want to buy and/or sell the house.

Then you did your research and you made a decision. The transaction happened (the house was either sold or bought), and you knew whether you made a bad or a good deal, after this transaction happened.

You also had a choice to NOT make these transactions.

Now lets try to compare this very basic scenario of our daily lives with theological faith.
In matters of theological faith,
One feels the need/want to find God.
Then he performs his research and makes a decision.

The challenge here is, the TRANSACTION has NOT happened yet - so he doesn't know whether his decision/choice was right or wrong?

IMO, the event of our death, is that TRANSACTION that has to happened before we know whether our decision on theological faith was right or wrong?

It's like, you did all your research and you don't sell the house but you believe you made $50,000 in profit by selling the house, AND you don't buy the house but you believe you bought a house $50,000 below it's market value- and you say that I made the right decision.

Apparently, in matters of theological faith, we don't have a choice to STOP that transaction from happening. The event of death is unstoppable.

So until that transaction happens, we can only wait and we shall probably see.

Second point; how are my signs different from Hindusim or whatever ism.

This is where our own intelligence, logic and research comes into play. These 3 factors vary from person to person.
There is no compulsion upon anyone; however, in my opinion it requires bravery and honesty because our brains do the intelligence, logic and research part, but the call to faith comes from the heart. So once one receives that call to faith from the honesty of his heart, he should be brave enough to stand with what he believes in the truth.

And then again, that "transaction" that is has been forced upon us, WILL happen, and it will probably reveal the truth.

And that's why I always say, we should make wise choices because in the end, we shall be responsible for our choices.
I have made a couple of mistakes in real estate deals, the biggest was within a few months to put the house for sale and in that time the local market crashed. I have also sold a car I should of held onto as it went up in value and a car I should not have bought. But overall I have made good choices on real estate. The best one was buying a very unique old home in a less desirable neighborhood. We love our home and after 25 years ot is no longer less desirable.

I always had evidence for the things I bought. I knew that they existed. I used lawyers in my real estate deals hence never need to just trust the other party. I would never buy a house just on one person telling me that it was nice and existed, especially when others were telling me the same thing about other houses.I always had evidence that those properties existed and we're available.

You like most theists who oppose atheists get one thing wrong. We don't reject god, we just refuse to believe he exists without adequate evidence or reason. You reject m9re gods than you accept. Why don't you accept each and every god?

I stand for what I believe in. I won't believe in anything because I was threatened if I didn't believe it. I think that other than obeying some silly rules I am as good of a citizen as the vast number of believers, better than many for sure. I don't rob, murder, rape or cheat on my wife. I think it was Russell that said to the question asked by God why didn't he believe said " not enough evidence, not enough evidence "

Only speaking for myself there is no way I could force myself to believe in any of the God's due to a threat of burning in hell especially if the reason was only I didn't worship the correct diety rather than for any thing I did to hurt othets.

Did you choose to believe and then looked for reasons to believe? I feel it more honest to believe what you have reason to believe. It would for me anyway. That you feel the opposite is of course your right but it is not for me. Perhaps that is the one real difference between us?
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