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Old 05-14-2018, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
21,008 posts, read 9,818,788 times
Reputation: 19660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Which is a good thing and fine by me.
I hope it answers the question. I guess I can perhaps also say that I am playing a safe game.

The same question is on you now, what if you find out that you were wrong and in fact there IS a God out there?
Then I'll say, "I'm truly sorry I doubted you. Maybe you shouldn't make faith in you so difficult to experience for millions and millions of the people you yourself cretated. You're not doing a very competent job for someone who is all powerful".
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:04 AM
 
4,088 posts, read 1,500,634 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Well technology has improved a lot since 2000 years ago, so historical evidence is what we relying upon, along with "the book".
Maybe a DVD, a digital photo or video of some miracles maybe, and maybe even some DNA?
Just enough to keep the sceptics happy intellectually, to allow spiritual conversion, otherwise we may as well be talking about UFO's and Big Foot.
Currently scientific evidence disproves young earth theories, so we need some type of counter to that.
Sure.

You can burn this onto DVD. Looks like a miracle to me, isn't it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOpQIfyuEQo


I mean seriously, if the book is not enough of a sign then probably nothing else will satisfy you.

It's very simple.

If your intelligence, logic and gut feeling tells you that there is a God out there, then you find his message towards you. This message comes in the form of a book - there are many books out there that claim to be holy. Your own intelligence should come into play in analyzing these books and see what talks to your heart?

If you find faith through a book (not necessarily the bible) then you try to live your life accordingly.

Those "scientifically advanced, and intellectually superior" skeptics that you are trying to make happy, will never be convinced. And you don't have to worry about it.

They have chosen their path using their own freedom of choice and as per their own intelligence. And you have chosen your own path. We shall wait and we shall see.

Live and let live is best choice.

Big foot or UFO or Santa Claus or Spaghetti monster don't have a book towards humanity - so their comparison to God is apples to oranges.

Once the Big foot or UFO or Santa Claus or the Spaghetti monster send their message towards humanity in the form of a book, we will then realize that book and see if it makes sense and it's valid as per our limited human knowledge. We will then have a choice whether to accept or reject it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,734 posts, read 10,056,896 times
Reputation: 2518
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You mean, like men who walked with Jesus who then taught other men?
....and the only evidence for these men is ...yes...you guessed it...the Bible!

Quote:
A church?
If Christianity is evidence for Jesus then Hinduism is evidence for Ganesha. Yes?

Quote:
Testimony of changed hearts?
...so the testimony of those that changed from Christianity to Hinduism or Islam etc...or to atheism, is proof that those things are true

Quote:
That sort of thing?
THAT sort of thing is nonsense.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,917 posts, read 7,395,496 times
Reputation: 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
....then you find his message towards you. This message comes in the form of a book......
And the trouble starts....
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:17 PM
 
4,088 posts, read 1,500,634 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
And the trouble starts....


Ans that’s why you are equipped with a certain amount of intelligence and logic.
You can choose or not to choose to analyze and resolve the troubles.

I wonder if humans required any intelligence, logic and knowledge if there was absolutely no touble or challenges in their lives?

There is no force upon you to care or don’t care about “the message or the book”. You still have intelligence, logic and knowledge, and I am sure you are putting it to a good use - which should make everyone happy.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:25 PM
 
2,277 posts, read 802,416 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
What I find strange about this, back when Jesus walked the earth, he had to show proof of who he claimed to be quite often, and even his disciples always wanted more proof, another miracle healing, etc etc. and Jesus did all kind of crazy supernatural things, raising people from the dead, healing them on the spot, etc and people still didnt believe him...


...And yet 2000+yrs later, God expects the people now to believe without any proof?? Why did he think this would happen when people living at the time of Jesus didnt believe it... when they saw it first hand?!!

Its also strange to me that Jesus was willing to demonstrate his abilities to back up his claim to the people back then, but he will not do the same today?

If he really wanted people to believe in him with faith, why did he even perform any miracles when he walked the earth? Why didnt he demand those people JUST believe and JUST have faith he is who he claims to be, without any proof or supernatural acts?
Occam's Razor - because Jesus never existed or was just a regular old human being. The supernatural acts and 'miracles' were just tall tales made up to increase the market share of a new religion. The entire Christian religion is based on marketing puffery like "under new management" or "new and improved formula" and a regular run of the mill human did not have the same ROI as a divine man-god.

I also find it strange that all of the documents and hard evidence of Jesus's existence and his supernatural existence all vanished into thin air leaving not a single trace. It find it all strangely coincidental that some DNA or other testable evidence was not left behind to test and potentially debunk. We all know that Jesus's DNA would have proven 100% that the myth of him being the progeny of a god was complete BS.

If you think rationally and can separate the religion aspect from the rest, you will quickly discover that the Bible has all the marks of a con man rap. A remarkable story meant to dazzle and distract while someone tries to lift a few bucks from your pocket. A bump on the sidewalk, a beautiful woman walking by at a strategic moment and a book of fairy tales that promise a one way trip to paradise are all designed to do one thing - trick you out of your cash.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:47 PM
 
5,807 posts, read 1,577,647 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
....and the only evidence for these men is ...yes...you guessed it...the Bible!

If Christianity is evidence for Jesus then Hinduism is evidence for Ganesha. Yes?

...so the testimony of those that changed from Christianity to Hinduism or Islam etc...or to atheism, is proof that those things are true

THAT sort of thing is nonsense.
I'm pretty confident that no matter what he'd have left behind you'd find a reason to discount it and put up a smoke screen. Let's be honest...nothing is going to be good enough if you're biased against it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 01:13 PM
 
37,293 posts, read 10,069,311 times
Reputation: 4962
This is just an excuse to dismiss the implications of you not having good evidence - if you had it we'd dismiss it anyway.

This is projection of course - you believers dismiss even hard evidence if it doesn't suit you, and you assume we think the same ways.

Tht's being polite and giving you the benefit of doubt. It could also be that you don't case, so long as yoy can swipte at atheists.

But Anthony Flew, who often gets waved in our face as a Convert is rebuttal. He converted because he though good evidence had been presented. And so would we all if the evidence was good enough.

In fact it turned out that it was all wrong and he'd been fooled. At first it just looked like science that turned out to be wrong, as sometimes in the case. But it later on turned out that it was a fraud - Creationism dressed in a lab coat.

But it gives the lie to this excuse your yours. We will accept good evidence when presented. In fact I accepted immediately the evidence that the Septuagint, fo far from being a mistranslation, might have been very close to the Jewish scriptures as they were in Jesus' day and the one we have now (the Babylonian Talmud) may be mistranslated or differently translated.

I accepted the evidence (the Dead sea scrolls) right away, even though I had to drop an important argument of mine. That's the way we work. So you produce the evidence and we'll accept it, it it stands up to scrutiny. And no more of your excuses.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Nice, France
867 posts, read 396,732 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
To answer your question,
Say I die and find out that I am completely wrong and there is no God.
This is an absurd basis. If there is no afterlife or god, you won't fnd out anything. Good thing is : you won't even know it
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:46 PM
 
5,807 posts, read 1,577,647 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
This is just an excuse to dismiss the implications of you not having good evidence - if you had it we'd dismiss it anyway.

This is projection of course - you believers dismiss even hard evidence if it doesn't suit you, and you assume we think the same ways.

Tht's being polite and giving you the benefit of doubt. It could also be that you don't case, so long as yoy can swipte at atheists.

But Anthony Flew, who often gets waved in our face as a Convert is rebuttal. He converted because he though good evidence had been presented. And so would we all if the evidence was good enough.

In fact it turned out that it was all wrong and he'd been fooled. At first it just looked like science that turned out to be wrong, as sometimes in the case. But it later on turned out that it was a fraud - Creationism dressed in a lab coat.

But it gives the lie to this excuse your yours. We will accept good evidence when presented. In fact I accepted immediately the evidence that the Septuagint, fo far from being a mistranslation, might have been very close to the Jewish scriptures as they were in Jesus' day and the one we have now (the Babylonian Talmud) may be mistranslated or differently translated.

I accepted the evidence (the Dead sea scrolls) right away, even though I had to drop an important argument of mine. That's the way we work. So you produce the evidence and we'll accept it, it it stands up to scrutiny. And no more of your excuses.
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