U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-12-2018, 06:38 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,662 posts, read 1,801,531 times
Reputation: 912

Advertisements

One of the things that non-believers, and even some of us believers are always going to question, is why do we just have a book left behind?
As somebody who is moderate theist and deep thinker, I would like everyone to be on the same page and facing the same unbiased judgement at the end of their time on Earth.
I don't believe that other Religions, ie non-Bible believers, or non-believers are doomed, nor should they be.
What are your thoughts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-12-2018, 07:04 PM
 
3,803 posts, read 2,466,524 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
One of the things that non-believers, and even some of us believers are always going to question, is why do we just have a book left behind?
As somebody who is moderate theist and deep thinker, I would like everyone to be on the same page and facing the same unbiased judgement at the end of their time on Earth.
I don't believe that other Religions, ie non-Bible believers, or non-believers are doomed, nor should they be.
What are your thoughts?
When one debunks the natural world , what else can suffice?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 08:25 PM
Status: "Partially gruntled." (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,961 posts, read 12,914,964 times
Reputation: 11419
If one believes in a Creator God, an old book is puny evidence when measured against the Universe(s).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,917 posts, read 7,395,496 times
Reputation: 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
When one debunks the natural world , what else can suffice?
I'm not at all sure what you mean by this, but the natural world (or universe, Dude) is a good way to go, and frankly that book you mention is going to throw most people off, especially if they think of it as a message FROM God rather than various perceptions ABOUT God. Even rational philosophy in what is known as enlightened self-interest working best in a society where people are committed to the best interests of evryone in any situation should be a big help. Incidentallythat is the essential message of Jesus and He promised a Spirit of that character, not a book.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 09:59 PM
 
4,088 posts, read 1,500,634 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
One of the things that non-believers, and even some of us believers are always going to question, is why do we just have a book left behind?
As somebody who is moderate theist and deep thinker, I would like everyone to be on the same page and facing the same unbiased judgement at the end of their time on Earth.
I don't believe that other Religions, ie non-Bible believers, or non-believers are doomed, nor should they be.
What are your thoughts?
God does not come down to earth and talk to each individual to convey his message. Otherwise all mankind would have been believers. Nobody would have had the choice whether to believe or not? Which again, kills the whole purpose of life.

God would created each and every person, revealed himself to him, the person would have been left with no choice but to believe - and God would have sent him to paradise.

Fortunately or unfortunately that’s not the case.

The question then becomes for the theists tis hat, if a God is out there, and he created me then, what does he want from me since he gave me intelligence and ability to choose. (Trees and animals don’t have too much of a choice, for exampe. They mostly function on a preprogrammed based work flow where they don’t need much of an intelligence to make too many choices) while human has lots of intelligence and a cross roads of choices to make at every step of life.

So what does God want from me?
Your religious book is the answer.
A message of your God to you. If you have faith in it that it’s *true and uncorrupted* message and it tells you how to live your life - then - you don’t need any more proofs and evidences because after this - it starts the time for tires to hit the road.

You keeping putting in your best effort that is within your means, to live a peaceful and morally conscious life in accord to the holy message, till your time ends - you will make mistakes along the way, for which not only you repent but also make up for it - and you hope for the best when it comes to your judgement time.

On the road the other hand if one has doubts in the book of his faith *BUT* he still believes in God then he should keep searching for the holy message which talks to his heart and let the tires hit the road. This is where intelligence comes into play.


And I think, Islam is the only religion among all faiths that believe in Hell and Heaven, which does NOT guarantee a red carpet cosmic welcome and a no question asked spot in Heaven to its followers. But it does provide hope and a promise for good deeds to be rewarded. And God being merciful who forgives.

All other faiths guarantee a no question asked place in Heaven to its followers - and I think this is where the purpose of life becomes sort of irrelevant.

But anyway, with our intelligence we are equipped well enough to analyze the book and see if “THIS IS THE BOOK” ? And if yes, you won’t need anymore proofs because the book is all we have to begin with.

But I do have a question for you - what other alternative proofs and evidences you think should’ve been available besides “The Book”?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 10:30 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,662 posts, read 1,801,531 times
Reputation: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
God does not come down to earth and talk to each individual to convey his message. Otherwise all mankind would have been believers. Nobody would have had the choice whether to believe or not? Which again, kills the whole purpose of life.

God would created each and every person, revealed himself to him, the person would have been left with no choice but to believe - and God would have sent him to paradise.

Fortunately or unfortunately that’s not the case.

The question then becomes for the theists tis hat, if a God is out there, and he created me then, what does he want from me since he gave me intelligence and ability to choose. (Trees and animals don’t have too much of a choice, for exampe. They mostly function on a preprogrammed based work flow where they don’t need much of an intelligence to make too many choices) while human has lots of intelligence and a cross roads of choices to make at every step of life.

So what does God want from me?
Your religious book is the answer.
A message of your God to you. If you have faith in it that it’s *true and uncorrupted* message and it tells you how to live your life - then - you don’t need any more proofs and evidences because after this - it starts the time for tires to hit the road.

You keeping putting in your best effort that is within your means, to live a peaceful and morally conscious life in accord to the holy message, till your time ends - you will make mistakes along the way, for which not only you repent but also make up for it - and you hope for the best when it comes to your judgement time.

On the road the other hand if one has doubts in the book of his faith *BUT* he still believes in God then he should keep searching for the holy message which talks to his heart and let the tires hit the road. This is where intelligence comes into play.


And I think, Islam is the only religion among all faiths that believe in Hell and Heaven, which does NOT guarantee a red carpet cosmic welcome and a no question asked spot in Heaven to its followers. But it does provide hope and a promise for good deeds to be rewarded. And God being merciful who forgives.

All other faiths guarantee a no question asked place in Heaven to its followers - and I think this is where the purpose of life becomes sort of irrelevant.

But anyway, with our intelligence we are equipped well enough to analyze the book and see if “THIS IS THE BOOK” ? And if yes, you won’t need anymore proofs because the book is all we have to begin with.

But I do have a question for you - what other alternative proofs and evidences you think should’ve been available besides “The Book”?
Well technology has improved a lot since 2000 years ago, so historical evidence is what we relying upon, along with "the book".
Maybe a DVD, a digital photo or video of some miracles maybe, and maybe even some DNA?
Just enough to keep the sceptics happy intellectually, to allow spiritual conversion, otherwise we may as well be talking about UFO's and Big Foot.
Currently scientific evidence disproves young earth theories, so we need some type of counter to that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 11:01 PM
 
9,061 posts, read 2,259,562 times
Reputation: 6243
What I find strange about this, back when Jesus walked the earth, he had to show proof of who he claimed to be quite often, and even his disciples always wanted more proof, another miracle healing, etc etc. and Jesus did all kind of crazy supernatural things, raising people from the dead, healing them on the spot, etc and people still didnt believe him...


...And yet 2000+yrs later, God expects the people now to believe without any proof?? Why did he think this would happen when people living at the time of Jesus didnt believe it... when they saw it first hand?!!

Its also strange to me that Jesus was willing to demonstrate his abilities to back up his claim to the people back then, but he will not do the same today?

If he really wanted people to believe in him with faith, why did he even perform any miracles when he walked the earth? Why didnt he demand those people JUST believe and JUST have faith he is who he claims to be, without any proof or supernatural acts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
21,008 posts, read 9,818,788 times
Reputation: 19660
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
God does not come down to earth and talk to each individual to convey his message. Otherwise all mankind would have been believers. Nobody would have had the choice whether to believe or not? Which again, kills the whole purpose of life.

No. Life is about so much more than YOUR religion.

God would created each and every person, revealed himself to him, the person would have been left with no choice but to believe - and God would have sent him to paradise.

Gee that would have been so horrible for God to take the people he created and led them to a happy and beautiful life. Thank goodness he was vengeful, instead.


Fortunately or unfortunately that’s not the case.

The question then becomes for the theists tis hat, if a God is out there, and he created me then, what does he want from me since he gave me intelligence and ability to choose. (Trees and animals don’t have too much of a choice, for exampe. They mostly function on a preprogrammed based work flow where they don’t need much of an intelligence to make too many choices) while human has lots of intelligence and a cross roads of choices to make at every step of life.

So what does God want from me?
Your religious book is the answer.
A message of your God to you. If you have faith in it that it’s *true and uncorrupted* message and it tells you how to live your life - then - you don’t need any more proofs and evidences because after this - it starts the time for tires to hit the road.

So does the Buddhist Tipitaka and other religion's books.

You keeping putting in your best effort that is within your means, to live a peaceful and morally conscious life in accord to the holy message, till your time ends - you will make mistakes along the way, for which not only you repent but also make up for it - and you hope for the best when it comes to your judgement time.

On the road the other hand if one has doubts in the book of his faith *BUT* he still believes in God then he should keep searching for the holy message which talks to his heart and let the tires hit the road. This is where intelligence comes into play.


And I think, Islam is the only religion among all faiths that believe in Hell and Heaven, which does NOT guarantee a red carpet cosmic welcome and a no question asked spot in Heaven to its followers. But it does provide hope and a promise for good deeds to be rewarded. And God being merciful who forgives.

All other faiths guarantee a no question asked place in Heaven to its followers - and I think this is where the purpose of life becomes sort of irrelevant.

You clearly know nothing about Buddhism.


But anyway, with our intelligence we are equipped well enough to analyze the book and see if “THIS IS THE BOOK” ? And if yes, you won’t need anymore proofs because the book is all we have to begin with.

Intelligent people have lots of other choices.

But I do have a question for you - what other alternative proofs and evidences you think should’ve been available besides “The Book”?

See above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
21,008 posts, read 9,818,788 times
Reputation: 19660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Well technology has improved a lot since 2000 years ago, so historical evidence is what we relying upon, along with "the book".
Maybe a DVD, a digital photo or video of some miracles maybe, and maybe even some DNA?
Just enough to keep the sceptics happy intellectually, to allow spiritual conversion, otherwise we may as well be talking about UFO's and Big Foot.
Currently scientific evidence disproves young earth theories, so we need some type of counter to that.
Sceptics? As in sceptic shock?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2018, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
21,008 posts, read 9,818,788 times
Reputation: 19660
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
What I find strange about this, back when Jesus walked the earth, he had to show proof of who he claimed to be quite often, and even his disciples always wanted more proof, another miracle healing, etc etc. and Jesus did all kind of crazy supernatural things, raising people from the dead, healing them on the spot, etc and people still didnt believe him...


...And yet 2000+yrs later, God expects the people now to believe without any proof?? Why did he think this would happen when people living at the time of Jesus didnt believe it... when they saw it first hand?!!

Its also strange to me that Jesus was willing to demonstrate his abilities to back up his claim to the people back then, but he will not do the same today?

If he really wanted people to believe in him with faith, why did he even perform any miracles when he walked the earth? Why didnt he demand those people JUST believe and JUST have faith he is who he claims to be, without any proof or supernatural acts?
And isn't it odd that all those miracles only happened in an era when evidence would not remain. How convenient.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top