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Then if it is shown that we can't agree, then perhaps we should let science decide. Analyzing the light should tell us which wavelength color it is. and if it can't decide itself, when we should say 'well, we don't know for sure rather than pick a preference and claim that's right.
then perhaps we know nothing for sure.
Nature has based everything on probabilities.
then perhaps we know nothing for sure.
Nature has based everything on probabilities.
Excellent. This is a point that religious apologetics fails to grasp - it's probabilities all the time, not certaintains based on faith - which I'm sore means they believe that God (choose you own) is putting the true facts into their heads - which is why they can never bring themselves to admit being wrong about anything significant.
What we know or believe is always on a sliding scale of probability. And discussion and debate is all about seeing where the weight of evidence builds up and tips the weight of probability in that direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
The actual recorded word is “Laurel” and the person who took the pic and has the actual dress in possession verified that it is blue and black.
How about that. I'd have gone for gold myself. But this is an example of how verified facts trumps they way it looks to us (imperfect human perception) every time - if you can get it. There's a question here of why the dress looks gold if it actually isn't. perhaps it's picture quality, or some quality of fabric that reflects gold light, or something that looks like it. This is questions about perception, and not reasons to reject perception and instead make a faith -based guess and stick with it, no matter what the verified evidence.
Can't you just hear them? "I don't know why they are lying. For money or pride? But I don't care what he says...."
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-21-2018 at 03:04 AM..
I don’t need to look at the dress or listen to the audio to accept that we have different perceptions on those things...and by extension, on our religious beliefs or non-beliefs.
But I don’t think that necessarily extends to religious belief. This subforum proves, to me anyway, that we can all, indubitably, utterly, believe two mutually exclusive things. And while belief and perception can be related, they’re not the same thing.
I believe my lack of belief in a deity was primarily acculturation. My parents didn’t say they were atheist; in fact, we said nominal blessing prayers before each shared meal. But we never went to church unless there was some sort of external reason...usually my religious grandparents. My mother would stress to me how important it was to put on the show for them. So I “learned” that god, and religion, were simply unnecessary and irrelevant. Subsequent education and experience reinforced that conclusion, and I’m utterly certain of it.
The larger question is, can we share a society with such a fundamental dichotomy of basic belief? I was reading an article this morning about the morality of assisted suicide. I’ve always believed in individual autonomy regarding the issue, so of course assisted suicide should be allowed so long as the person’s choice was made willingly and knowingly. So i was at first surprised that any intelligent person could still hold a belief that life is sacred because it was given by a deity; didn’t everyone know that it was the result of a random fertilization of an egg by a sperm? Where’s the sanctity in that?
But while I still absolutely believe that, I have to accept that many of you absolutely don’t, and that your belief is as valid as mine. So...can we share this society? Should we? Or will we come to an intractable dispute when you don’t want to bake a wedding cake for my gay brother’s wedding, or I don’t want to pay more taxes because your church is tax-exempt?
I think it was with GoCardinals we discussed this on the atheism forum and I admitted by default my mind goes to "there must a a logical explanation" for things other people call supernatural. For example, I have sleep paralysis and was raised to fear demons. Some people who have experienced this are convinced this is proof of demonic activity. Even at 14, fully immersed in the culture, I was able to override that in favor of there being a logical explanation that was outside of my grasp. I don't think everyone has that default. That may be due to some wiring.
Edit: holy crap that dress now looks back and blue. Maybe it' because I'm on a PC instead of a phone or because I'm in the dark right now. Weird!
I had sleep paralysis too (I grew out of it for the most part) and also assumed there was a logical explanation. I just think God is a logical explanation for life and consciousness.
Disclaimer:
I don't know the answer to the title - I don't know if this is how things are set up, I don't claim that this is how it works - and I am also open to the possibility that I could be totally wrong in thinking these thoughts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... nipped for space ...
But what makes it different is that unlike one of those optical illusions where one person sees an old lady and the other sees a young lady - both are right and both are wrong *BUT* in the example I gave above - only one party is right. And the other is wrong. Those who see it blue and black are right.
And those who heard Laurel are also right.
The other two groups are wrong - but what can they do about it? Their brain is wired this way.
Optical allusion are tricks. So yeah, we can trick people. And we can't stop people from tricking others, we see that here at CD. Its even worse out in the real.
treating a statement of belief about god, or good, (mine only or anti-theirs) as the problem is exactly the same as your optical illusion. No, we will never change it using an illusion.
we see that here on cd. Its not about what is real, its about "what I want to be real". self is an illusion. that's that.
I don’t need to look at the dress or listen to the audio to accept that we have different perceptions on those things...and by extension, on our religious beliefs or non-beliefs.
But I don’t think that necessarily extends to religious belief. This subforum proves, to me anyway, that we can all, indubitably, utterly, believe two mutually exclusive things. And while belief and perception can be related, they’re not the same thing.
I believe my lack of belief in a deity was primarily acculturation. My parents didn’t say they were atheist; in fact, we said nominal blessing prayers before each shared meal. But we never went to church unless there was some sort of external reason...usually my religious grandparents. My mother would stress to me how important it was to put on the show for them. So I “learned” that god, and religion, were simply unnecessary and irrelevant. Subsequent education and experience reinforced that conclusion, and I’m utterly certain of it.
The larger question is, can we share a society with such a fundamental dichotomy of basic belief? I was reading an article this morning about the morality of assisted suicide. I’ve always believed in individual autonomy regarding the issue, so of course assisted suicide should be allowed so long as the person’s choice was made willingly and knowingly. So i was at first surprised that any intelligent person could still hold a belief that life is sacred because it was given by a deity; didn’t everyone know that it was the result of a random fertilization of an egg by a sperm? Where’s the sanctity in that?
But while I still absolutely believe that, I have to accept that many of you absolutely don’t, and that your belief is as valid as mine. So...can we share this society? Should we? Or will we come to an intractable dispute when you don’t want to bake a wedding cake for my gay brother’s wedding, or I don’t want to pay more taxes because your church is tax-exempt?
I had a quick look to see whether this is on topic, and as it's anybody's guess, I'll say it is.
So, yes, we can share differing beliefs in society, and I think we'll have to.
05-21-2018, 03:32 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Technically, it was Laurel. Ha, the Yannites are hearing something that technically does not exist - just like theists.
I had sleep paralysis too (I grew out of it for the most part) and also assumed there was a logical explanation. I just think God is a logical explanation for life and consciousness.
You're right. I don't know what word is appropriate. I assume there isn't outside agency? Kinda..maybe?
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