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Old 01-12-2019, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,407 posts, read 4,395,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
I find you are far from alone in thinking, " I have No idea what happens...."
Really? Show me your stats on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
However, I also find that Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures and made references to them.
A well educated carpenter in ancient times before people of that time were worldly or even knew what DNA was or that the earth is not the center of the Universe and that it orbits the sun?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
So, to me it is No wonder that Jesus taught the dead are in a 'sleep-like state' at John 11:11-14 when his friend died.
Jesus thus knew the Psalms teach ' sleep' in death -> Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4, and also at Isaiah 38:18.
Why do you need to quote scriptures to make your point? Do you realize that you have a mind of your own?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Plus, King Solomon, known for godly wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing.
LOL "godly wisdom"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Thus, the dead know nothing but sleep. Sleep as the prophet Daniel believed at Daniel 12:2,13.
If believing this is what it takes for you to get through this life then I feel for you. No one knows what happens when we die and if they are proclaiming to know...I would not trust them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Although people can create meaning and even purpose in life, only Scripture gives us: the Resurrection Hope.
This is only your perspective and the "dream" that you choose to believe in. Just don't try to push it off on others as if you think it should be their reality as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Some resurrected to Heaven, but the majority of mankind to have a healthy physical resurrection on Earth.
The hope of being resurrected back to life during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins.
LOL how long are you guys going to believe in this? What's your Jesus waiting on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
You can go right ahead and waste your entire life believing in this, but this Jesus character will never come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Come and bring the benefits of Rev. 22:2 to Earth when there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations.
At that thousand-year time frame, even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth -> 1st Cor. 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
Again quoting scripture is out dated and tells me that you don't realize that you have your own ability to think for yourself.
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:49 AM
 
11,291 posts, read 4,397,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As best I can determine, "deciding for ourselves" is what a prosecutor might call a "lesser included" condition for the fulfillment of our purpose. If we do not have a reason to exist there is no inherent problem with defining morality subjectively by consensus. But that would be totally subject to caprice. Accidents without a reason to exist just engage in self-congratulatory egotism trying to define an objective morality.

Sam Harris asserts that our consciousness can assess objective morality as a series of peaks and valleys of human well-being in a moral landscape. But calling it morality implies that we have an objective purpose or reason to exist at all. Otherwise, what difference would the impact on human well-being make? With a purpose for human existence, we could determine what is moral by what is constructive to that purpose or what is immoral by what is destructive to that purpose. Otherwise, what's the point of pretending it is morality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Nope, not subject to caprice, because it still has to have utility. It has to work for the individual's purposes at least. Any system is constrained by whether or not it actually serves a purpose and provides benefit. When members of a society evolve a consensus about what is right and wrong it is with an implicit end in mind, generally, a stable, safe, civil, respectful society that most people prefer to live in. In theory, random things can be agreed to, but if they don't serve the ends, then the means will necessarily change.

Lack of bestowed external purpose does not equate to an accident. Also ... speaking only for myself, I don't seek to define an objective morality. Just a workable one. There is no total objectivity.

You've just answered your own rhetorical questions. As a society we collectively decide we want civility, stability, and peace, and we judge outcomes by whether they achieve those ends or not. Of course, the definitions of civility, stability, and peace are not 100% agreed upon and "objective" but they are universal enough to get the job done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your rebuttal reveals three perspectives on morality as a concept:

(1) to ensure fair play and harmony between individuals;
(2) to help make us good people in order to have a good society; and
(3) to keep us in a good relationship with the power that created us.

It is only on number 3 that we disagree, but that is the critical one, IMO. In the absence of an absolute standard, Caprice would be operable in the determination of what is fair play or what is harmonious or what makes us good people and what is a good society. Surely you can see that. Gaining consensus is no guarantor against Caprice. I realize that you conceded the point when you asserted that there is no objective morality and in the absence of #3 I would agree. That is why I tend to dismiss any such notion of morality if there is no reason or purpose for our existence. What difference would it make to reality whether or not any of #1 or #2 were operative? If we blew ourselves to smithereens and obliterated ourselves from reality, it would make no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Without a purpose, existence is irrelevant to anyone but each individual so their impact on others or some overarching concept like society is also irrelevant.
A blade of grass in meaningless so it is everything.
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:38 PM
 
4,813 posts, read 2,357,492 times
Reputation: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Really? Show me your stats on this.
A well educated carpenter in ancient times before people of that time were worldly or even knew what DNA was or that the earth is not the center of the Universe and that it orbits the sun?
Why do you need to quote scriptures to make your point? Do you realize that you have a mind of your own?
LOL "godly wisdom"!
If believing this is what it takes for you to get through this life then I feel for you. No one knows what happens when we die and if they are proclaiming to know...I would not trust them.
This is only your perspective and the "dream" that you choose to believe in. Just don't try to push it off on others as if you think it should be their reality as well.
LOL how long are you guys going to believe in this? What's your Jesus waiting on?
You can go right ahead and waste your entire life believing in this, but this Jesus character will never come.
Again quoting scripture is out dated and tells me that you don't realize that you have your own ability to think for yourself.
Jesus thought for himself. Jesus used logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.

How can Scripture be out dated when an English teacher can use old English text books to teach.
How can Scripture be out dated when a Math teacher uses old Math books to teach.
How can Scripture be out dated when a History teaches uses old History books from which to teach.
Math and History, etc. may be old but just being old does Not necessarily make then outdated.

At age 12 Jesus was Not yet a carpenter, but by age 12 Jesus was already educated in Scripture - Luke 2:42-47
For the most part I do Not quote Scripture, but merely show the source.
Scripture is Not my perspective, but it's the manual, the text book known as the Bible for everyone.

What Jesus is waiting on: is the for the completion of the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
The global international proclaiming about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 is Now at its closing time frame.
That ' final phase ' means we are now nearing the ' final signal ' when earth's 'powers that be' will be saying, "Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14, then Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Now you know what is ahead of us...........
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,123 posts, read 9,843,215 times
Reputation: 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
For the most part I do Not quote Scripture, ...
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!



Quoting scripture is all you EVER do!
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:57 PM
 
4,813 posts, read 2,357,492 times
Reputation: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Quoting scripture is all you EVER do!
Let's see, who is the one quoting and referring to Scripture when he says, " it is written..." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures. So, in other words, Jesus is the one who based his beliefs by referring back to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the Hebrew Scriptures by quoting or referring to them as the basis for his teachings.
There is an old adage that says he who laughs last...............
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,123 posts, read 9,843,215 times
Reputation: 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Let's see, who is the one quoting and referring to Scripture when he says, " it is written..." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures. So, in other words, Jesus is the one who based his beliefs by referring back to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the Hebrew Scriptures by quoting or referring to them as the basis for his teachings.
There is an old adage that says he who laughs last...............
Let's see. I suggest you go back over your posts and look at how many times you give us bible verses.

...and yes. I'm STILL laughing!
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,187 posts, read 568,262 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Let's see, who is the one quoting and referring to Scripture when he says, " it is written..." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures. So, in other words, Jesus is the one who based his beliefs by referring back to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the Hebrew Scriptures by quoting or referring to them as the basis for his teachings.
There is an old adage that says he who laughs last...............
The fictional Jesus, yes. The fictional Jesus also says to keep all the laws until the universe ends. He also says the opposite.

But the real Paul says he only knows of Jesus as an angel revealed in the OT, or through visions. Not once does he quote Jesus (although their is a faked letter).
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,407 posts, read 4,395,083 times
Reputation: 6644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
The fictional Jesus, yes. The fictional Jesus also says to keep all the laws until the universe ends. He also says the opposite.

But the real Paul says he only knows of Jesus as an angel revealed in the OT, or through visions. Not once does he quote Jesus (although their is a faked letter).
I came across this website years ago and found that the author of these writings put in a lot of time and effort finding the inconsistencies in the bible and walks us to the obvious conclusions based on the writings in the bible itself.

How a Fictional Jesus Gave Rise to Christianity
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:33 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,961 posts, read 5,532,992 times
Reputation: 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Let's see, who is the one quoting and referring to Scripture when he says, " it is written..." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures. So, in other words, Jesus is the one who based his beliefs by referring back to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the Hebrew Scriptures by quoting or referring to them as the basis for his teachings.
There is an old adage that says he who laughs last...............
Let's see. I suggest you go back over your posts and look at how many times you give us bible verses.

...and yes. I'm STILL laughing!
Let's get back to the topic. It's OK with me if it just goes dark/black when we die... I hope people remember me well and that the world is a better place for my being on board for whatever time I have.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:48 AM
 
3,986 posts, read 4,891,147 times
Reputation: 3615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Let's get back to the topic. It's OK with me if it just goes dark/black when we die... I hope people remember me well and that the world is a better place for my being on board for whatever time I have.
nice response-----as I and others I have encountered in my professional career , the going dark is brief,meeting God happens quickly and confronting your past issues in human life comes quickly before you are given your final lb destination . BOTTOM LINE OUR SPIRIT DOES NOT DIE JUST OUR PHYSICAL BODIES
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