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No, that is not what I said or described. What I _did_ actually say was that anything I did - I do not regret because I acted based on the information I had at the time and given that same information set I would act that way again.
The value judgement of "wrong" is something you are then importing into what I said. I did not do so as a value statement.
For me "regret" would involve looking back on a decision or action and know that I did not act in service of the information I had at the time and would therefore wish that I had done differently. There is no example of this in my life at present.
There are plenty example however where I look back with information I have _now_ and I know that had I that information at the time I would have acted differently. But knowledge that I did not have that information then precludes the possibility of "regret" for me.
you say it like with all the choices available to you ... you made the right choice every time.
that's what you actually said.
I just don't see that in anybody. well, anybody can think that ... its just they tend to hard to deal with.
yes, I am inserting a value judgment. i state, it has been my experience, that people that think like this are a problem to people around them.
you say it like with all the choices available to you ... you made the right choice every time.
No, what he said wasn't quite that bad. As I understand it, he's willing to admit that he made wrong decisions, but none that he knew were wrong at the time. I still find it hard to believe, mind you. But I think we should be careful not to misrepresent him.
No, that is not what I said or described. What I _did_ actually say was that anything I did - I do not regret because I acted based on the information I had at the time and given that same information set I would act that way again.
I totally understand what you are saying here. In fact if all people would come to understand this about themselves and other's it would help evolve human relations.
Everyone, regardless if they are aware of it or not, behaves and reacts in life based on their level of knowledge, self-esteem, awareness and the "dream" they have been conditioned to believe or that they willing choose to believe. Behaviors and choices are also dependent upon how devolved a person's emotional intelligence is. Hopefully as people grow and evolve throughout life their "dream" changes, their level of knowledge increases, their self-esteem might improve, and most of all hopefully their level of awareness improves.
Regret to me is simply not being able to forgive yourself for something you did that hurt you or hurt others.
I can see feeling regret for not taking a chance on something that you intuitively know you should have but you allowed your mind to talk you out of it. Or taking the chance when your intuition was "screaming" loud and clear to not take that risk!
However that type of regret can cripple people if they allow it. How one deals with regret is what really matters. Learn from it and move on.
I personally was not born with the want or desire to intentionally harm people, animals or plants..some people make this their life's mission. Those are the folks who should be reeling with regret.
Your rebuttal reveals three perspectives on morality as a concept:
(1) to ensure fair play and harmony between individuals;
(2) to help make us good people in order to have a good society; and
(3) to keep us in a good relationship with the power that created us.
It is only on number 3 that we disagree, but that is the critical one, IMO. In the absence of an absolute standard, Caprice would be operable in the determination of what is fair play or what is harmonious or what makes us good people and what is a good society. Surely you can see that. Gaining consensus is no guarantor against Caprice. I realize that you conceded the point when you asserted that there is no objective morality and in the absence of #3 I would agree. That is why I tend to dismiss any such notion of morality if there is no reason or purpose for our existence. What difference would it make to reality whether or not any of #1 or #2 were operative? If we blew ourselves to smithereens and obliterated ourselves from reality, it would make no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Without a purpose, existence is irrelevant to anyone but each individual so their impact on others or some overarching concept like society is also irrelevant.
Just curious ... why do you capitalize Caprice?
Humans have a lot in common overall. The purpose and meaning each of us finds therefore has a lot in common and tends to converge on the goal of civil society. It is a strong enough tendency to work quite well to that end. So there is in fact a relevant impact on others and the overarching society. I don't think you cal look back on the broad story arc of history over, say, the past thousand years and argue that society hasn't improved overall. If I am right and there is no man behind the curtain to pay attention to, then I am right that individually determined meaning and purpose does converge enough to produce a consensus societal meaning and purpose. Because that's what has happened.
I totally understand what you are saying here. In fact if all people would come to understand this about themselves and other's it would help evolve human relations.
Everyone, regardless if they are aware of it or not, behaves and reacts in life based on their level of knowledge, self-esteem, awareness and the "dream" they have been conditioned to believe or that they willing choose to believe. Behaviors and choices are also dependent upon how devolved a person's emotional intelligence is. Hopefully as people grow and evolve throughout life their "dream" changes, their level of knowledge increases, their self-esteem might improve, and most of all hopefully their level of awareness improves.
Regret to me is simply not being able to forgive yourself for something you did that hurt you or hurt others.
I can see feeling regret for not taking a chance on something that you intuitively know you should have but you allowed your mind to talk you out of it. Or taking the chance when your intuition was "screaming" loud and clear to not take that risk!
However that type of regret can cripple people if they allow it. How one deals with regret is what really matters. Learn from it and move on.
I personally was not born with the want or desire to intentionally harm people, animals or plants..some people make this their life's mission. Those are the folks who should be reeling with regret.
To me, regret is knowing the right thing to do and not doing it anyway, usually out of fear or sloth. Doing your best at the time, and realizing later there was a better way or that you were wrong, is at worst disappointing if the outcome resulted in harm to yourself or to others. But it's not to be regretted. All anyone can do is their best with the understanding they currently have.
And as you point out, even actual regret is wasted on someone who torments themselves with it. Regret serves the purpose of motivating us to correct our thinking and improve our character, to take stock and take action, not to stew and self-flagellate.
I have at times felt embarrassment about my life as a theist and how late in life my BS detector went off concerning it. But I let go of that a long time ago because it's not actionable. I've corrected my thinking now and there's nothing for it but to move on from there. Better late than never!
Everyone, regardless if they are aware of it or not, behaves and reacts in life based on their level of knowledge, self-esteem, awareness and the "dream" they have been conditioned to believe or that they willing choose to believe. Behaviors and choices are also dependent upon how devolved a person's emotional intelligence is. Hopefully as people grow and evolve throughout life their "dream" changes, their level of knowledge increases, their self-esteem might improve, and most of all hopefully their level of awareness improves.
Well this is a more complete picture, at any rate. Still, I'm convinced that at least sometimes a person will do something they know is wrong without having any issues with self-esteem, awareness, etc. At times "Because I wanted the candy bar and I didn't want to pay for it" is perfectly sufficient.
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Regret to me is simply not being able to forgive yourself for something you did that hurt you or hurt others.
It's pretty common to view regret in this way or something similar. But how would you characterize someone simply wishing they hadn't have done x, although they've forgiven themselves for doing it?
I have at times felt embarrassment about my life as a theist and how late in life my BS detector went off concerning it. But I let go of that a long time ago because it's not actionable. I've corrected my thinking now and there's nothing for it but to move on from there. Better late than never!
I love this ole wise one! You are truly a soul that I admire on many levels.
Absolutely better late than never...that has to be one of the most wonderful accomplishments one could ever experience!
Well this is a more complete picture, at any rate. Still, I'm convinced that at least sometimes a person will do something they know is wrong without having any issues with self-esteem, awareness, etc. At times "Because I wanted the candy bar and I didn't want to pay for it" is perfectly sufficient.
I can only see this occurring at a point when all self control has gone completely out the window.
This is why it's important to constantly work on self control and evolving your emotional intelligence....not to mention to ALWAYS take full responsibility for ALL of your actions.
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Matadora's comment:
Regret to me is simply not being able to forgive yourself for something you did that hurt you or hurt others.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
It's pretty common to view regret in this way or something similar. But how would you characterize someone simply wishing they hadn't have done x, although they've forgiven themselves for doing it?
I need more details about the person who does this. If a person continually does things that they know is wrong such as pedophilia, abuse, harm, stealing, etc...but they find a way to forgive themselves for it but continue to do it and then forgive themselves...over and over and over...I would characterize this person as an unconscionable psychopath that truly has no moral compass. You see this often in the religious fundamentalists...they believe that they can do what ever heinous horrific abuse to anything on earth and all they have to do is ask for forgiveness and all is good. That's about as evil and sick as it gets.
It reminds me of this famous quote: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
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