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Old 05-22-2019, 02:48 PM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62
That is pretty bleak...we just live 70-80 yrs (give or take), and then just Not exist anymore, in ANY capacity!!

Whats the point of all this then? Why bother caring about how we live our lives or the things we do?




Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
That's the point, rs: there IS no point. Everything that exists must eventually come to a state of nothingness. Look at the universe. It is not self-sustaining. In a thousand trillion trillion years the galaxies will burn out and then all that space will be occupied by nothingness. Here's a great video that demonstrates exactly what astrophysicists theorize will happen to our universe. If you can't sit through the entire half hour (although it is spectacular) skip to the last five minutes or so. All good things must eventually come to an end, including us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA


Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Yes, I realize what will happen with all the planets and eventually our entire galaxy, I just have a hard time believing our lives and existence are all for nothing.

In the big scheme of things, it doesnt matter one bit what kind of person I am in this life, I could be the next 'Hitler' and kill off an entire generation of people, or be the most generous person I can, giving to others and helping them out, but neither would make any difference ultimately.

I believe there HAS TO BE some purpose to all this, I can throw a bunch of wood into the air all day long, but its never going to fall into a complete piece of furniture! (analogy about how mankind came into existence-good argument for intelligent design).


Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelaMonster View Post
No, I'm sorry, but it really isn't! We have a very solid understanding of how mankind came into existence, supported by actual evidence, and it has nothing to do with throwing things in the air... or with intelligent design.

Heela is right. There really isn't. Rs, I know how you feel. I at one time struggled with trying to make sense out of all this chaos down here. But as I thought about it and analyzed what I saw happening, the best I could come to is that it is all organized chaos but ultimately chaos nonetheless. If we had something--anything from the afterlife communicating to us in a scientifically veridical manner, then yeah, great. We have something to cling to that something better awaits us. I have moved from "certain there is an afterlife" to "agnostic there is an afterlife". I read about NDE's and many of them are pretty convincing. But veridical NDE's simply don't happen with the frequency I'd like to see that would justify in my mind that an afterlife awaits us. Millions of people have had NDE's but nearly all of them are anacedotal carrying no veridical weight at all.
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:17 PM
 
472 posts, read 93,546 times
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Just so there is no confusion, my reply ("No, I'm sorry, but it really isn't!") was in direct response to the last statement below, suggesting that the tossed wood analogy is a good argument for ID...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I believe there HAS TO BE some purpose to all this, I can throw a bunch of wood into the air all day long, but its never going to fall into a complete piece of furniture! (analogy about how mankind came into existence-good argument for intelligent design).
Having said, I also agree with trillobyte's comments on the meaning of it all and the likelihood of afterlife. Carry on...
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,668 posts, read 5,509,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
In the big scheme of things, it doesnt matter one bit what kind of person I am in this life, I could be the next 'Hitler' and kill off an entire generation of people, or be the most generous person I can, giving to others and helping them out, but neither would make any difference ultimately.
Correct.

It’s rather unfortunate, but it’s reality.

I’d argue that the temporary “here and now” is still worth something, however. If I had the ability to cure cancer I’d still do it, even if it were ultimately meaningless.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,868 posts, read 14,217,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I believe there HAS TO BE some purpose to all this,...
Why, yes, there is.

Would you like to know what it is?

Your raison d'ętre is the same as every organism that lives now and which has ever lived: Procreate to perpetuate the species and ensure its survival.

That's why you exist. It's your primary function in life and it's the only function.

Everything else is secondary.

The fact that you can choose not to procreate does not alter the basic reality that your raison d'ętre is to procreate.

The only real difference between you and other organisms is your brain has evolved to be incredibly powerful. You can actually foresee the consequences of your actions, the actions of another, and even the actions of inanimate objects, right?

If you can manage to have a good time while you're here, that's definitely a bonus, but you're not here to have a good time. At most, that's ancillary to your primary function.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,868 posts, read 14,217,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
That's the point, rs: there IS no point. Everything that exists must eventually come to a state of nothingness. Look at the universe. It is not self-sustaining. In a thousand trillion trillion years the galaxies will burn out and then all that space will be occupied by nothingness. Here's a great video that demonstrates exactly what astrophysicists theorize will happen to our universe. If you can't sit through the entire half hour (although it is spectacular) skip to the last five minutes or so. All good things must eventually come to an end, including us.
It was fascinating crap.

I'm particularly amused about how it ignored fundamental celestial mechanics.

Novae and super novae result in the formation of new stars and galaxies. Granted, not ever star goes nova, but enough do to constantly sustain the formation of new stars.

Contrary to what they believe, the Sun is not going to sit where it is indefinitely. Everything in the Universe orbits something, and our Sun orbits a barycenter. Alter the mass of the Sun in any significant way, and the Sun's orbital path changes and it starts heading toward the gravity of the nearest large celestial mass.

The Sun may or may not collide with another star, but you can rest assured other White Dwarves will.

Seriously, I never understood why people never considered the possibility that Einstein lied.

Why?

Are you for real? Einstein just watched people pervert his scientific knowledge into a weapon. Who seriously believes he would let it happen again?
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Up North
3,812 posts, read 1,008,172 times
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AA is an interesting case study. Can't tell you how many people in AA are agnostic/atheist. Yet they are to pray to strengthen their sobriety...and most of them do.

The whole thing is based on Christian principles - yet many unbelievers. Yet they're praying.

Even if I came to conclusion there is nothingness after death, I think I would still have to get on my knees...and pray to SOMETHiNG.


So I don't know...I think theire is a God...or maybe not. I don't know...it's all so hard to grapple with.
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,774 posts, read 19,875,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
AA is an interesting case study. Can't tell you how many people in AA are agnostic/atheist. Yet they are to pray to strengthen their sobriety...and most of them do.
Not a great example to use since the failure rate of AA is extremely high.
(And they no longer are expected to pray to god...just any stonger 'power')
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Up North
3,812 posts, read 1,008,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Not a great example to use since the failure rate of AA is extremely high.
(And they no longer are expected to pray to god...just any stonger 'power')
Is there?

Teen Challenge gas the least turnover am9g all treatment centers ad that is an EXTREMELY protestant-orieted ordeal.
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,437 posts, read 10,385,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Not a great example to use since the failure rate of AA is extremely high.
I belong to Overeaters Anonymous, and to a very large extent we follow AA principles. We don't pray to god, although some do. We connect with our "higher power", whatever that may be. And it doesn't have to be "a god".

But I think the bigger question about prayer is the difference between what it's supposed to be and what it often is.

1. My grandmother was quite religious, and I was dragged to church (methodist) with her since she raised me. One day when I got somewhat older I waited until about an hour after we got home and I asked, "So what do you think the most important thing the minister said in his sermon was today. She got this funny look on her face, and even though she had sat through a 20 minute sermon, she had no idea what the minister had said.

2. It's sort of like back in the 1960s when Red Skelton did a serious piece on his show about "The Pledge Of Allegiance" and he talked about the pledge having become nearly irrelevant because we just said it by rote, paying no attention to the meaning.

3. And I saw this a lot when I started going to catholic mass...people saying the prayers in the service by rote, most with little connection to what the words actually meant.

4. When I was still a christian and would say the lord's prayer I started combating that rote factor by paraphrasing each line...it made me think about what I was saying. Ironically, that helped me become an atheist because I was finding more and more that I didn't believe much of what was in there when I actually had to think about it.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:39 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
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OCD, addiction, among other things.

How would am emotional person, with other disconnects, take to being told they are rejected by the universe? rampage maybe?

It all points to not one, I haven't spoke to one, hard core anti-theist that isn't scared and/or brain broke.
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