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I can only see this occurring at a point when all self control has gone completely out the window.
On the contrary, such a notion would entail self-control (as well as self-awareness). It would be the quite common phenomenon of someone just not caring. They could stop themselves, and they understand that it's wrong, but they'd rather do what's wrong for the sake of getting what they want.
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I need more details about the person who does this.
Honestly, I think this too is very common. It simply means you would do things differently if you could go back, but you're not kicking yourself over it.
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If a person continually does things that they know is wrong such as pedophilia, abuse, harm, stealing, etc...but they find a way to forgive themselves for it but continue to do it and then forgive themselves...over and over and over...I would characterize this person as an unconscionable psychopath that truly has no moral compass.
Well I never said "continually". Nor would it have to be anything super-dramatic. I was talking about someone looking back at maybe just one thing in their lives that they did, and regretting it. This doesn't necessarily mean they haven't forgiven themselves, is the point.
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It reminds me of this famous quote: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Yes yes, a very popular quote. But false! "Good people" do bad things when given too much power and/or sufficiently pressured (read: Milgram experiment and Zimbardo prison study). Has nothing to do with religion or the lack thereof.
On the contrary, such a notion would entail self-control (as well as self-awareness). It would be the quite common phenomenon of someone just not caring. They could stop themselves, and they understand that it's wrong, but they'd rather do what's wrong for the sake of getting what they want.
Not caring to me = all self control and self dignity is gone.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
It simply means you would do things differently if you could go back, but you're not kicking yourself over it.
OK then that's fine.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Well I never said "continually".
I never stated you did.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Nor would it have to be anything super-dramatic.
I never stated or implied such. I simply pointed out the reality that is all around us.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I was talking about someone looking back at maybe just one thing in their lives that they did, and regretting it.
I see this as making a permanent life mistake. One that you will have to live with until the day you die.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Yes yes, a very popular quote. But false!
No it's not false at all!
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
"Good people" do bad things when given too much power and/or sufficiently pressured (read: Milgram experiment and Zimbardo prison study). Has nothing to do with religion or the lack thereof.
Wrong, good people don't do bad things. Evil people and those with no moral compass or those that are unconscionable do bad things...thus the quote is spot on!
Perhaps due to the fact you are a male you think along these lines...the male species commits more heinous acts against innocent people, children, other animal species and plants. Many are hard wired in these tendencies/behaviors and you most likely think as you do because you are a male.
Not caring to me = all self control and self dignity is gone.
Dignity, maybe, that's a subjective notion. But there's no contradiction in someone who doesn't care what's right and wrong (especially just in that moment) but has complete control of themselves.
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OK then that's fine.
Okay, great. So we should be careful how we define "regret". This finally ties back in to the original point, of course, and says that one could have regrets in heaven without it becoming a living "hell".
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Wrong, good people don't do bad things.
I would encourage you to read up on the Milgram experiment. I think you'll find the results... quite shocking...
if we look, the most reasonable discussion on regret is what the normal person would come to agree on. "we regret somethings and we try not to let it eat us away". for the most part that is. Most of us didn't do something so bad we need to let it haunt us. And even if we did, there reaches a point where its just healther to people around us if we let it go.
changing the discussing to regret and how religion uses it is a completely different topic but does shed light on why these discussion never get settle. The anti-religion sect of atheism address everything on their whole definitions on the statement of belief about god (here no god).
so we need to be honest. Does everything make sense when encapsulated in "bad religion"? Does it make sense when encapsulated in "my religion only".
this regret discussion spot lights the trouble. those of us in middle are not in this game for the same reason as anti-religion or my-religion-only.
Thats a good thing.
there in no after life that I have to address. I live knowing I hurt some people that didn't deserve it. But we have to move on.
Dignity, maybe, that's a subjective notion. But there's no contradiction in someone who doesn't care what's right and wrong (especially just in that moment) but has complete control of themselves.
Okay, great. So we should be careful how we define "regret". This finally ties back in to the original point, of course, and says that one could have regrets in heaven without it becoming a living "hell".
I would encourage you to read up on the Milgram experiment. I think you'll find the results... quite shocking...
its that simple vic.
how would a person that is defined by anti-religion have to answer your notions?
How would a person that is defined by "my religion-only" answer?
How would a person with no real stake in the answer other than doing the best one can with what one has answer?
predict the type of answers and see how those predictions line up with the responses you get?
Okay, great. So we should be careful how we define "regret". This finally ties back in to the original point, of course, and says that one could have regrets in heaven without it becoming a living "hell".
I don't see your reasoning for needing to be careful on how one defines regret. Regret is regret regardless of how you want try and change the definition.
I think everyone has been using the standard definition of regret: to feel sad, repentant, or disappointed over (something that has happened or been done, especially a loss or missed opportunity).
How one deals with regret is more important.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I would encourage you to read up on the Milgram experiment. I think you'll find the results... quite shocking...
There is nothing at all shocking about this. It should be clear to anyone who understands that the human species mind has the ability to be easily brainwashed, sweet talked, overwhelmed or subverted by other hard wired tendencies that are sometimes disguised as "right of reason". This is evidenced all throughout history up through today.
All throughout history you've seen this trait in the human species especially the male species...which happen to be the subjects of the Milgram experiment.
Perhaps you should read this and learn that in 2012 Australian psychologist Gina Perry investigated Milgram's data and writings and concluded that Milgram had manipulated the results, and that there was "troubling mismatch between (published) descriptions of the experiment and evidence of what actually transpired.
" She wrote that "only half of the people who undertook the experiment fully believed it was real and of those, 66% disobeyed the experimenter".
You have a lot to learn about the human mind and how easily it can be manipulated. It's the reason so many people on this earth believe in the "religious dream".
I don't see your reasoning for needing to be careful on how one defines regret.
Simply that we shouldn't be afraid of it. Redefining it as "not forgiving yourself for something you did" is not helpful, and may even become unhealthy, to deny when you regret something. I've forgiven myself for all of my regrets.
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There is nothing at all shocking about this. It should be clear to anyone who understands that the human species mind has the ability to be easily brainwashed, sweet talked, overwhelmed or subverted by other hard wired tendencies that are sometimes disguised as "right of reason". This is evidenced all throughout history up through today.
So that would sharply contradict "Good people don't do bad things", unless you're saying that only bad people can be brainwashed, sweet talked, overwhelmed, etc.
And there's also the Zimbardo prison study, which deals more with the question of what giving someone too much power can do.
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