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Old 05-30-2018, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
3,281 posts, read 2,995,821 times
Reputation: 12558

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
First, a bit about me. I used to consider myself a full-blooded Christian until I reached adulthood. That was when I figured out there was a whole lot more to this than a narrow-minded religion practiced by a fraction of the global population. Not to mention the Heaven / Hell thing which bothered me from the time I was "saved" by one of my dear aunts at the tender age of 7. Although I was glad to be one of the ones who got that magic pass to Heaven, it sure bothered me that so many people would be subject to endless torment just because they didn't believe or worse yet, didn't subscribe to a specific brand of Christianity.
I well remember my moment like this. I was about five or six years old, sitting in Sunday School and the nice lady preacher was telling all of us that we should feel so lucky we know Jesus, because that means we are saved and we won't go to the fiery place like all of those unlucky people who haven't been saved. One of the other kids raised her hand and said, "What about the people in Africa who didn't hear about Jesus yet? Are they still going to have to go to the fiery place, even though they didn't get a chance to learn about Him?" and the nice lady preacher said, "It's too bad for them, but no, they can't go to heaven." Even as a kid, I knew that wasn't fair, and it turned me off of Christianity for a long time. I believe in Jesus now, but not the Jesus the church talks about.

I was going to a Universalist Spiritualist church for a while last year. I absolutely loved their loving and beautiful philosophy, and the fact that they celebrate the gifts of the spirit rather than condemning those of us who have them and have developed them.

As for stories about things science can't explain, here's one. I'm a mental medium, and one day I was doing an email reading for a client. When I was done with the reading, I asked if there was anything more I needed to tell them, and I heard, "Yes, tell them to tell the kid with the bow tie who works for them that his Grandma says hi, and that he needs to stop hiding his light under a bushel. And tell him to make sure to wash behind his ears!"

So I told this to my client. She knew immediately who I was talking about, as one of their employees always wore a bow tie, and she relayed the message to him. My client got back to me and told me that this guy started laughing when she got to the end of the message, saying that he used to spend summers at his Grandma's house when he was a little boy, and before he could eat his supper, she always checked to make sure he had washed behind his ears. So explain that, Science!
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,158 posts, read 26,101,649 times
Reputation: 27898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
Hey, that one's easy. The day we "figure it all out" is the day we become one with God, and our "story" is complete.

That's one way of looking at it. Or, you could just say "that's for God to know, and you to figure out."

)
Not that easy since you left out a few details. (Vast understatement there)
So is that the 'end of life 'as we know it?

As to your last statement if we still have to figure it out then we still haven't figured it out, right?
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,072,114 times
Reputation: 14069
I don't believe in any god-thing as written about in any "holy" book. But I'm with the Bard:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

And I want to learn/experience/know more with every passing day.
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
995 posts, read 505,568 times
Reputation: 2170
Okay, since death is such a big part of religious / spiritual beliefs, I'll go ahead and talk about my close encounters with the Grim Reaper - three of them, actually.

The first one - I was 15 years old, and was having a race with my best friend to the corner market, with me on a bike taking the short route and him on the moped, going the long route. I was "getting it," pushing my bike to 30 mph (it had a speedometer on the handlebar.) I was hunched over, messing with the gears to keep my speed up, and I didn't see what was in front of me.

It was a parked car, all by itself. I saw the front tire of the bike kiss the bumper of this car, and then...nothing. No bang, no bump, no pain. I "came to" in a formless void, with no physical sensation whatsoever. And I didn't know who I was. I was conscious (able to have thought), but I had to "find" myself. I then had to figure out where I was (location on the physical plane) plus I had to figure out when I was. Yep, I had to find my proper place on the timeline before I could re-establish full consciousness. Once I was able to do that, I came to, with my body splayed up against the front of the car. I reoriented myself and did a physical damage check, since I didn't feel any pain whatsoever. The worse I had on me was a nasty gash on my shin - I was okay otherwise.

My friend found me a few moments later, and he helped me get home. I told my mother that I almost died, and it confused her greatly. I wasn't merely knocked out, I was thrown out of my body - trust me, there's a big difference. I honestly think my heart and brain stopped due to extreme impact at 30 mph, and just like a computer, my brain did a full reboot. Once my consciousness was loaded in (the who, where and when of myself), I was able to come back into wakefulness. If I'd merely been knocked out (and it's happened to me before) - I'd just come to with nothing happening in between.

I've never considered this a full-fledged NDE since I didn't see the light or get to chat with the deceased - although I think it was because it was so brief - probably less than a minute. But I really do think I "died" for that tiny moment of time.

Number 2 - I was 19 years old, and was going home from a bar. A couple guys asked me if I could give them a lift (big mistake, I know ). We pulled into an apartment complex where I thought they were gonna hop out, and the next thing I knew, I had a blade pressing against my neck, hard enough to make me think I was getting cut. My brain ran a clip of me bleeding out and dying in 60 seconds, and the oddest sensation came over me - one of total peace and relaxation. It was like someone was telling me it was totally okay, although I was sure I was going to be dead in less than a minute.

Of course, the dude just wanted to rob me so he could have his drug fix. They let me go and I just went home without calling the police - this was before mobile phones. Yes, I was shaken by the experience, but the feeling of utter calm while I imagined myself bleeding out - that was something else. I've been told that drowning victims feel this way before dying - total peace and calm, although they're still alive. I have no idea if this is an evolutionary trait to aid in survival or not - I'd love some input from anyone who might know something about this.

The last encounter I've had is much more recent, just a bit over a year ago. I had just arrived in England the night before, so I was apparently in a super-deep sleep from being ultra tired from the long journey. I had a super-intense dream of me being caught up in a body-destroying vortex (sorry, there's no other way of describing it) and just like the event at 15, I was in a formless void with no physical sensation of a body. I asked (heard) "is this a dream?" and got the answer that it wasn't. I died! Then I felt myself pulling away from myself / another person and zipped a great distance at lightning speed in this indeterminable void, and that's when I woke up. Although I was shaken (who wouldn't be?) I told no one, and we did our thing the next morning as planned. Soon after, I saw the news of some people getting killed in a tornado outbreak back in the US, and I figured out that was what happened to me - I was killed in a tornado. That's exactly what it felt like.

Of course, it wasn't me, it was somebody else. I somehow "connected" with that person in their moment of death. Weird, huh?

That's my three close encounters with death. Interpret them as you will - it matters not to me what others think of this. But to me, it makes death a tad less intimidating, and I can take comfort that dying doesn't hurt (honestly, it doesn't!)

And when I go out for real, I'll be saying "Yep, I've done this before." LOL.
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:56 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,082 posts, read 20,556,241 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by irootoo View Post
I well remember my moment like this. I was about five or six years old, sitting in Sunday School and the nice lady preacher was telling all of us that we should feel so lucky we know Jesus, because that means we are saved and we won't go to the fiery place like all of those unlucky people who haven't been saved. One of the other kids raised her hand and said, "What about the people in Africa who didn't hear about Jesus yet? Are they still going to have to go to the fiery place, even though they didn't get a chance to learn about Him?" and the nice lady preacher said, "It's too bad for them, but no, they can't go to heaven." Even as a kid, I knew that wasn't fair, and it turned me off of Christianity for a long time. I believe in Jesus now, but not the Jesus the church talks about.

I was going to a Universalist Spiritualist church for a while last year. I absolutely loved their loving and beautiful philosophy, and the fact that they celebrate the gifts of the spirit rather than condemning those of us who have them and have developed them.

As for stories about things science can't explain, here's one. I'm a mental medium, and one day I was doing an email reading for a client. When I was done with the reading, I asked if there was anything more I needed to tell them, and I heard, "Yes, tell them to tell the kid with the bow tie who works for them that his Grandma says hi, and that he needs to stop hiding his light under a bushel. And tell him to make sure to wash behind his ears!"

So I told this to my client. She knew immediately who I was talking about, as one of their employees always wore a bow tie, and she relayed the message to him. My client got back to me and told me that this guy started laughing when she got to the end of the message, saying that he used to spend summers at his Grandma's house when he was a little boy, and before he could eat his supper, she always checked to make sure he had washed behind his ears. So explain that, Science!
We don't need to. It is an unverifiable anecdote.

Even if you related the story absolutely honestly as far as you can recall, there's so much that neither you or I know about that could explain it ever if we knew.

It is, in effect just another miracle claim, and miracle claims by their very nature, look very convincing - until you know more of the facts.

The biggest and best of all - Fatima - fell apart under scrutiny. So really 'science' has to decline to be required to explain anecdotal miracles or ...what..admit that miracles happen?

Sorry, madame, it doesn't work like that.

.......

yet again...but Required reading, and relevant to Supernatural claims and why anecdotes are not evidence.

qualiasoup open mindedness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:08 PM
 
6,222 posts, read 3,993,952 times
Reputation: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
We don't need to. It is an unverifiable anecdote.

Even if you related the story absolutely honestly as far as you can recall, there's so much that neither you or I know about that could explain it ever if we knew.

It is, in effect just another miracle claim, and miracle claims by their very nature, look very convincing - until you know more of the facts.

The biggest and best of all - Fatima - fell apart under scrutiny. So really 'science' has to decline to be required to explain anecdotal miracles or ...what..admit that miracles happen?

Sorry, madame, it doesn't work like that.

.......

yet again...but Required reading, and relevant to Supernatural claims and why anecdotes are not evidence.

qualiasoup open mindedness


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
Did you notice the thread title? I doubt the poster was actually expecting any arm-chair scientist/specialist to answer.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:12 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,802 posts, read 6,249,249 times
Reputation: 5042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
Okay, since death is such a big part of religious / spiritual beliefs, I'll go ahead and talk about my close encounters with the Grim Reaper - three of them, actually.

The first one - I was 15 years old, and was having a race with my best friend to the corner market, with me on a bike taking the short route and him on the moped, going the long route. I was "getting it," pushing my bike to 30 mph (it had a speedometer on the handlebar.) I was hunched over, messing with the gears to keep my speed up, and I didn't see what was in front of me.

It was a parked car, all by itself. I saw the front tire of the bike kiss the bumper of this car, and then...nothing. No bang, no bump, no pain. I "came to" in a formless void, with no physical sensation whatsoever. And I didn't know who I was. I was conscious (able to have thought), but I had to "find" myself. I then had to figure out where I was (location on the physical plane) plus I had to figure out when I was. Yep, I had to find my proper place on the timeline before I could re-establish full consciousness. Once I was able to do that, I came to, with my body splayed up against the front of the car. I reoriented myself and did a physical damage check, since I didn't feel any pain whatsoever. The worse I had on me was a nasty gash on my shin - I was okay otherwise.

My friend found me a few moments later, and he helped me get home. I told my mother that I almost died, and it confused her greatly. I wasn't merely knocked out, I was thrown out of my body - trust me, there's a big difference. I honestly think my heart and brain stopped due to extreme impact at 30 mph, and just like a computer, my brain did a full reboot. Once my consciousness was loaded in (the who, where and when of myself), I was able to come back into wakefulness. If I'd merely been knocked out (and it's happened to me before) - I'd just come to with nothing happening in between.

I've never considered this a full-fledged NDE since I didn't see the light or get to chat with the deceased - although I think it was because it was so brief - probably less than a minute. But I really do think I "died" for that tiny moment of time.

Number 2 - I was 19 years old, and was going home from a bar. A couple guys asked me if I could give them a lift (big mistake, I know ). We pulled into an apartment complex where I thought they were gonna hop out, and the next thing I knew, I had a blade pressing against my neck, hard enough to make me think I was getting cut. My brain ran a clip of me bleeding out and dying in 60 seconds, and the oddest sensation came over me - one of total peace and relaxation. It was like someone was telling me it was totally okay, although I was sure I was going to be dead in less than a minute.

Of course, the dude just wanted to rob me so he could have his drug fix. They let me go and I just went home without calling the police - this was before mobile phones. Yes, I was shaken by the experience, but the feeling of utter calm while I imagined myself bleeding out - that was something else. I've been told that drowning victims feel this way before dying - total peace and calm, although they're still alive. I have no idea if this is an evolutionary trait to aid in survival or not - I'd love some input from anyone who might know something about this.

The last encounter I've had is much more recent, just a bit over a year ago. I had just arrived in England the night before, so I was apparently in a super-deep sleep from being ultra tired from the long journey. I had a super-intense dream of me being caught up in a body-destroying vortex (sorry, there's no other way of describing it) and just like the event at 15, I was in a formless void with no physical sensation of a body. I asked (heard) "is this a dream?" and got the answer that it wasn't. I died! Then I felt myself pulling away from myself / another person and zipped a great distance at lightning speed in this indeterminable void, and that's when I woke up. Although I was shaken (who wouldn't be?) I told no one, and we did our thing the next morning as planned. Soon after, I saw the news of some people getting killed in a tornado outbreak back in the US, and I figured out that was what happened to me - I was killed in a tornado. That's exactly what it felt like.

Of course, it wasn't me, it was somebody else. I somehow "connected" with that person in their moment of death. Weird, huh?

That's my three close encounters with death. Interpret them as you will - it matters not to me what others think of this. But to me, it makes death a tad less intimidating, and I can take comfort that dying doesn't hurt (honestly, it doesn't!)

And when I go out for real, I'll be saying "Yep, I've done this before." LOL.
Thanks. I'm more of a materialist but that first story makes sense if people did have some kind of ectosomething apart from our bodies. It makes no sense to me a person would be able to keep memories since they are stored in the brain. If consciousness runs on the brain like the energy powering a computer and our minds are the software then it makes sense the software would not go with the energy but stay with the computer. It could be the case however that you just got knocked silly. Either way, interesting insights.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
995 posts, read 505,568 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Thanks. I'm more of a materialist but that first story makes sense if people did have some kind of ectosomething apart from our bodies. It makes no sense to me a person would be able to keep memories since they are stored in the brain. If consciousness runs on the brain like the energy powering a computer and our minds are the software then it makes sense the software would not go with the energy but stay with the computer. It could be the case however that you just got knocked silly. Either way, interesting insights.
I've also had dreams / visions of things that have yet to take place, sometimes with unmistakable detail. Some of them were me being on a 2nd floor of a building while seawater rushed in underneath and kept rising (and not understanding why it was doing that) - just like what happened in SE Asia and Japan in recent years. I want to tell a story of a personal event which some might find interesting - I'll do that later.

In regards to how I view prayer, I don't do much of it. I'm not big in asking an external God for anything, due to the extremely poor track record of it in the world - I've always known that, even as a kid. Instead, I do what I call "manifesting," and that's me using my own energy to try and make something positive happen. I use it to help others, never for myself (just don't think it works that way, don't ask me why.)

Of course, this is probably just silly talk, but it's such a nice feeling when I "manifest" and good things happen. It's not something I readily share with others, however. It's just a "me" thing I do to try and make things go a bit better for the people around me. This goes along with the "connectedness" principle of the universe which science has yet to explain.

In my humble opinion (all of this.) Interpret as you will.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:17 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,508,730 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
I've also had dreams / visions of things that have yet to take place, sometimes with unmistakable detail. Some of them were me being on a 2nd floor of a building while seawater rushed in underneath and kept rising (and not understanding why it was doing that) - just like what happened in SE Asia and Japan in recent years. I want to tell a story of a personal event which some might find interesting - I'll do that later.

In regards to how I view prayer, I don't do much of it. I'm not big in asking an external God for anything, due to the extremely poor track record of it in the world - I've always known that, even as a kid. Instead, I do what I call "manifesting," and that's me using my own energy to try and make something positive happen. I use it to help others, never for myself (just don't think it works that way, don't ask me why.)

Of course, this is probably just silly talk, but it's such a nice feeling when I "manifest" and good things happen. It's not something I readily share with others, however. It's just a "me" thing I do to try and make things go a bit better for the people around me. This goes along with the "connectedness" principle of the universe which science has yet to explain.

In my humble opinion (all of this.) Interpret as you will.
understanding it is there and not being able to explain it are different issues. "cake time" fits with everything being there and we just experience the illusion of moving through it. I have no idea if its true, but its a hypothesis that they are looking at.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,802 posts, read 6,249,249 times
Reputation: 5042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
I've also had dreams / visions of things that have yet to take place, sometimes with unmistakable detail. Some of them were me being on a 2nd floor of a building while seawater rushed in underneath and kept rising (and not understanding why it was doing that) - just like what happened in SE Asia and Japan in recent years. I want to tell a story of a personal event which some might find interesting - I'll do that later.

In regards to how I view prayer, I don't do much of it. I'm not big in asking an external God for anything, due to the extremely poor track record of it in the world - I've always known that, even as a kid. Instead, I do what I call "manifesting," and that's me using my own energy to try and make something positive happen. I use it to help others, never for myself (just don't think it works that way, don't ask me why.)

Of course, this is probably just silly talk, but it's such a nice feeling when I "manifest" and good things happen. It's not something I readily share with others, however. It's just a "me" thing I do to try and make things go a bit better for the people around me. This goes along with the "connectedness" principle of the universe which science has yet to explain.

In my humble opinion (all of this.) Interpret as you will.
I passed out giving blood once and I was immediately in Germany(I've never been) on a gorgeous September day. I remember I was wearing a red sweater. I don't know why my mind put me there but it was pretty cool.
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