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I had the bible forced down my throat as a kid still too young to tell 'em to "go away" and I have no recollection of any clear and concise passages in the bible that suggest this.
So I am calling BS on this (although, should evidence to the contrary surface, I will reconsider my stance).
With you attitude of having the Bible being forced down you throat, even if it had been taught, and it may not have been, you would not have heard it.
Jesus fulfilled to many Messianic prophecies not to be the Messiah. That means He must return to fulfill the rest of them. John 14;3 & 18 clearly teaches the second coming. Also in the Parable of the Good Samaritan He says "when I return I will repay you." Jesus is the Good Samaritan.
Nothing there for a Jew to look at, you can't use the New Testament, do you understand?
You have to prove two comings in the law and the prophets.
No we don't. They have to prove he NT is not from God. Jesus fulfilled to many Messianic prophecies not to be the Messiah. The fact He did not fulfill them all is evidence He must return. The Biblical evidecence is clear, Jesus is the Messiah and many Jew have come to accept that.
That has got to be the most weird thing I have ever heard.
What is weird about saying the way to know is to study
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Gentiles don't know anything about the religion of God, should I ask you questions about the 7 feasts and the Sabbaths that I know you can't answer?
That statement is very presumptious of you. Ask away, I think I understand them better than you do.
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Do you know what happens in the daily sacrifice, what is said and done?
What your traditions say is said is not Biblical. It is not what is said, it is what is done that is important. All of your sacrifices point to the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
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The fall Holy days begin on Rosh Hashanah where God is sealing all his people against the judgment of all the Gentile nations on Yom Kippur, there are ten days one might just go to jail before Yom Kippur, and then comes the feast of Tabernacles where 3 divisions of priests are set in their orders to collect the water, the wine and the branches while all along the light has made the night, day. What are the priests doing and saying, what is the congregation doing and saying?
All of what you do is traditional, not Biblical.
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We are looking at the greatest family re-union in history and everyone plays a part. Study all you want and you will still not understand God the way a Jew does. One person loves and studies the law, and another person is lawless, and he thinks he understands the law better than the Jews who have lived the law all this time.
I am not interested in understanding God the way the Jews do. I am only interested in understanding God the way He portrays Himself in His Word. If you think the Jews have live the law all of their lives, you need to study the minor prophets more closely.
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Christians don't keep the worship system of God, how would they know anything about the worship system of God?
Jews are not the final word of in the worship of God. The Bible is the only way to learn about what God requires is to study both testaments. Gentiles can do that as well as the Jew can.
The new is in the old contained
The old is in the new explained.
If you only use part of God's inspired word, you will never understand God completely.
No, I don't expect to find it. That's why I'm saying that there is no provision for the Jewish Mashiach to come, fulfil part of the messianic prophecies, be killed, return to life and then return at some unknown future date to fulfil the rest of the prophecies but I would expect to find a 'second coming' if such a thing was predicted. It isn't of course and that's why it is nowhere to be found.
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Originally Posted by omega2xx
Jesus fulfilled to many Messianic prophecies not to be the Messiah.
No. He didn't fulfil any. Not one of them.
He must build the temple.
A mosque stands where that temple must be.
He must bring word peace.
There is no world peace
He must unite all Jew under Yahweh's laws.
Are all Jews observing those laws?
He must bring ALL people together under one 'God'.
There are thousands of different religions.
He must be born by normal birth to normal parents.
A virgin birth is not normal.
He must gather all Jews back to Israel.
There are probably more Jews in New York than there are in Israel.
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah.
To be a member a person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah going back to king David but according to Christians, 'God' was his father.
He must be a normal person, not a god.
All the above can be found in Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:
“And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children’s children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.“
So please. Be so kind as to point out which of the above prophecies your Jesus fulfilled.
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That means He must return to fulfill the rest of them.
No. The Jewish Mashiach must come and fulfil all the prophecies when he is here. There is NO second coming. If there was such an important event as the Mashiach doing half the job,being killed, coming back to life and returning at an unknown time to do the rest of the job then the Jews would know about it. It's their, their book, their prophecies.
No, I don't expect to find it. That's why I'm saying that there is no provision for the Jewish Mashiach to come, fulfil part of the messianic prophecies, be killed, return to life and then return at some unknown future date to fulfil the rest of the prophecies but I would expect to find a 'second coming' if such a thing was predicted. It isn't of course and that's why it is nowhere to be found.
Did you read what I posted and then come to that conclusion?
Nothing there for a Jew to look at, you can't use the New Testament, do you understand?
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Originally Posted by Rafius
I was thinking of something more connected to the Jews, you know, the people who's prophecy it is - rather than a Christian Bible apologist site.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Seriously, you expect to actually find that?
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Originally Posted by Rafius
No, I don't expect to find it. That's why I'm saying that there is no provision for the Jewish Mashiach to come, fulfil part of the messianic prophecies, be killed, return to life and then return at some unknown future date to fulfil the rest of the prophecies but I would expect to find a 'second coming' if such a thing was predicted. It isn't of course and that's why it is nowhere to be found.
No. He didn't fulfil any. Not one of them.
He must build the temple.
A mosque stands where that temple must be.
He must bring word peace.
There is no world peace
He must unite all Jew under Yahweh's laws.
Are all Jews observing those laws?
He must bring ALL people together under one 'God'.
There are thousands of different religions.
He must be born by normal birth to normal parents.
A virgin birth is not normal.
He must gather all Jews back to Israel.
There are probably more Jews in New York than there are in Israel.
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah.
To be a member a person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah going back to king David but according to Christians, 'God' was his father.
He must be a normal person, not a god.
All the above can be found in Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:
“And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children’s children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.“
So please. Be so kind as to point out which of the above prophecies your Jesus fulfilled.
No. The Jewish Mashiach must come and fulfil all the prophecies when he is here. There is NO second coming. If there was such an important event as the Mashiach doing half the job,being killed, coming back to life and returning at an unknown time to do the rest of the job then the Jews would know about it. It's their, their book, their prophecies.
“And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children’s children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.“
This is the New Covenant that gentiles claim to be in, as if they were one with Judah and as if they loved the Law. Gentiles were only grafted through the loss of those ten tribes, through the hope and promise spoken to the kingdom of Ephraim in Hosea 2. Paul is quoting Hosea 2 in Romans 9 showing how a Gentile becomes Israel by joining the Jews.
Does it really look like Gentiles and Jews have become one?
In the beginning, Gentiles converted to Judaism and they actually became one people with Jews, but that was then before the covenant was broken.
It isn't the Jew's prophecy, it is not as Christian's prophecy, it is God's.
God has two sons who are named Ephraim and Judah. Ephraim is mostly made of Gentiles. A Christian can't claim the covenant at all if he isn't Ephraim, the covenant and prophesies have nothing to do with anyone else. '' I will bring a New covenant for Judah and Ephraim.''
Where does one see a Gentile in this?
There AINT one.
You either get adopted and grafted in through the loss of the ten tribes of Israel or you don't, and the only way to be adopted to become one with Jews, is that you have to take hold of the covenant, how does a Gentile take hold of God's covenant to become one with his people where they have obtained an inheritance in Israel?
Salvation for All Nations 1Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
What is weird about saying the way to know is to study
That statement is very presumptious of you. Ask away, I think I understand them better than you do.
What your traditions say is said is not Biblical. It is not what is said, it is what is done that is important. All of your sacrifices point to the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
All of what you do is traditional, not Biblical.
I am not interested in understanding God the way the Jews do. I am only interested in understanding God the way He portrays Himself in His Word. If you think the Jews have live the law all of their lives, you need to study the minor prophets more closely.
You go ahead and tell yourself that the Torah cycle doesn't matter, that the traditions and duties of the priest do not matter, do you know all the Torah cycle, all the traditions and all the duties of the priest with what they say when performing their duties?
Before you could say that all these things didn't matter, you would have to know them first, and then give an opinion. I have no doubt that you are saved, but you simply can't understand the entire New Testament if you don't know the traditions and what is practiced in the temple by the priests and by the congregation.
You are reading over these things all the time and you don't know it.
That crow that sounded off against Peter was not a crow, it was a priest standing in a tower sounding an alarm that the Holy day was beginning and the priests should be waking.
You just have no idea how much those traditions teach, and you may as well put Revelation down completely, because Revelation is written of the fall Holy days and what takes place in the temple on those fall holy days, but since the Christian knows nothing of Jewish holy days, they don't even know Revelation is speaking about the fall holy days, and so they just make stuff up.
Where in the bible are you going to find 30 min of silence after the incense is offered?
You wont, so why did so much of Revelation rely on the reader knowing traditions, the Torah cycle, and the feasts of God?
You can read that the priest is to do this or that, but you can't find out how it is done unless you ask the Jews, and God has perfected the worship system of the Jews.
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