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Yes. We have a POV that fundamentalists don't share: "Christ did not come into the world to take away our God-given ability to reason."
1. God doesn't write books.
2. If a nation has a bunch of rules that mostly benefit the Levites, reason tells us that MAYBE it's the Levites coming up with these ideas in the first place, ya know?
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Wait. Dumb question. Of course you are. That's your M.O.!
I meant work to support themselves, and you know that's what I meant.
So the 10 commandments to you are "just a bunch of rules"? that only a few people benefit from? that were created for selfish motives? as a scam? that has lasted 3,330 years? again, i seriously question the boasting about "ability to reason" if they hold those views.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-04-2018 at 11:41 AM..
Because we agree he died 4 BC, possibly late 5 BC.
Because if you read works like Josephus, you can calculate the date of death for yourself. 4 BC, possibly late 5 BC.
Yes, I accept facts that Herod died around 4 BC. The fact that it proves a contradiction remains regardless of your excuses.
I found this one WITHOUT tweeking any dates. The fact you need to be dishonest about that is telling.
When you say he date was "Around" it means you don't know for sure.
Luke live much closer to the events than Josephus and some say Joseph was more political than accurate. Historian at that time would not write anything bad about the ruler and some say Josephus was not a really good historian.
If you want to talk about being dishonest consider saying "around" give an accurate date.
So the 10 commandments to you are "just a bunch of rules"? that only a few people benefit from? that were created for selfish motives? as a scam? that has lasted 3,330 years? again, i seriously question the boasting about "ability to reason" if they hold those views.
The most important part of the ten commandments -- at least to the world -- are some "rules" that are not unique to christianity. For example, in Buddhism we follow five basic Precepts: don't harm living things, don't take what is not given, don't participate in sexual misconduct, don't use inappropriate speech, and don't take intoxicating substances. Of course, we are no better at following those precepts than christians are at following the ten commandments. But my point here is that those five Precepts -- if you actually think about them -- are not much different than more than half of the ten commandments.
When you say he date was "Around" it means you don't know for sure.
Exactly. It DOES mean we know for sure he died 4/5 BC. Which STILL means Luke and Matthew contradict. And if you include a certain Jewish text, then Herod died November or December, 5 BC.
A date within TWO MONTHS, none of which can be in 6/7AD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx
Luke live much closer to the events than Josephus and some say Joseph was more political than accurate. Historian at that time would not write anything bad about the ruler and some say Josephus was not a really good historian.
Actually Luke uses Josephus, so Luke is later. And at least Josephus was a historian, while Luke was only pretending. He does not say who he is (unlike historians of those times), he never names his sources (unlike historians of those times), he rearranges his sources (unlike historians of those times), he invents a history that contradicts his sources (Paul's own letters). Unlike historians of those times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx
If you want to talk about being dishonest consider saying "around" give an accurate date.
I honestly gave you a date as accurately as possible. To pretend otherwise is YOU ONCE AGAIN BEING DISHONEST. And I do not need to be more accurate, as 4/5 BC can never, ever, ever be 6/7 AD.
Saying honesty is being dishonest is a stupid way to ignore the contradiction you are afraid of.
The most important part of the ten commandments -- at least to the world -- are some "rules" that are not unique to christianity. For example, in Buddhism we follow five basic Precepts: don't harm living things, don't take what is not given, don't participate in sexual misconduct, don't use inappropriate speech, and don't take intoxicating substances. Of course, we are no better at following those precepts than christians are at following the ten commandments. But my point here is that those five Precepts -- if you actually think about them -- are not much different than more than half of the ten commandments.
i am pointing out how ludicrous it is to say that "rules that benefit individuals, society, and the world are a scam for selfish motives". that type of "argument" is not founded in any sort of logic, reason, or common sense.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-04-2018 at 12:11 PM..
or maybe it shows that you and others don't understand the purpose and function of what a tithe is and why it exists in the first place. perhaps the boasting about "ability to reason" is.....misplaced? empty?
still waiting for an answer on this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
If that is all that tithing is to you then you don't understand its function and purpose. So you really are in no position to rail on others as "obtuse" and boast of having an "ability to reason" that you claim others lack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
So the 10 commandments to you are "just a bunch of rules"? that only a few people benefit from? that were created for selfish motives? as a scam? that has lasted 3,330 years? again, i seriously question the boasting about "ability to reason" if they hold those views.
Your eighth-grade mean-girl tactics are amusing, but transparent. The problem for you is that we are on a message board where everyone can plainly see what I said and the context in which I said it, and none of your childish attempts at provocation can change that.
And here we have the usual horsewhoop without justification. MQ's answer follows EXACTLY what was given as rationale in Tanach. What later Rabbinical apologists have come up with is THEIR (and your) interpretation. I notice that you won't state YOUR interpretation of the "purpose" of tithing, much less your justification of it in Tanach.
And she won't. Her whole deal is just to create argument for the enjoyment of arguing. There's no desire to have an intelligent back-and-forth dialogue, just to pick and provoke until she gets the reaction she seeks. I can't be bothered. Maybe someone else can. Have a party with that.
Exactly. It DOES mean we know for sure he died 4/5 BC. Which STILL means Luke and Matthew contradict. And if you include a certain Jewish text, then Herod died November or December, 5 BC.
Only if you tweek the dates to fit your senerio.
Quote:
A date within TWO MONTHS, none of which can be in 6/7AD.
You really can't' tell if it is within 2 months.
Quote:
Actually Luke uses Josephus, so Luke is later. And at least Josephus was a historian, while Luke was only pretending. He does not say who he is (unlike historians of those times), he never names his sources (unlike historians of those times), he rearranges his sources (unlike historians of those times), he invents a history that contradicts his sources (Paul's own letters). Unlike historians of those times.
I honestly gave you a date as accurately as possible. To pretend otherwise is YOU ONCE AGAIN BEING DISHONEST. And I do not need to be more accurate, as 4/5 BC can never, ever, ever be 6/7 AD.
Saying honesty is being dishonest is a stupid way to ignore the contradiction you are afraid of.
When you get some real evidence for what you accept by faith alone, get back to me.
So the 10 commandments to you are "just a bunch of rules"? that only a few people benefit from? that were created for selfish motives? as a scam? that has lasted 3,330 years? again, i seriously question the boasting about "ability to reason" if they hold those views.
The first three of the commandments are simply silly. The other seven are common sense and not restricted to god believers.
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