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Old 07-01-2018, 07:41 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,510,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
No, that would be NOT experiencing the sun rise.

What I am saying is that if you experience something like Fatima, or voices in your head, or as in Acts some fuzzy glowing lights, how can you be sure that experience is real, and not your brain providing a false experience for some reason.

The list of cognitive biases on Wikipedia is a good source for seeing just how untrustworthy our brain can be. Which is why I do not rely on personal, unverifiable personal experience for a god, or the imaginary friend my youngest daughter had when she was young.
well, I guess I am just not following you on this .. thats a "my bad", More than I thinks its you, I think harry.

I'll just say ...

I know "personal experience" can't be used as a proof. The more people that have the subject experience the more valid it tends to be. for example: butter pecan ice cream sells a lot. so its safe to say that people like it. yes, a small select group might like doogie hair favored ice cream. Its still safe to say "you liking doggie hair ice cream s weird." even with personal subjective.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:43 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,495,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
the movie 'mission to mars" did that. its possible.

I only don't think that because its more probable that mars, being smaller, couldn't hold an atmosphere as well as earth when the magnetic field was lost. toss in any other event, like an asteroid, and mars took a different path.

I used to feel strongly about shooting cans of poop in all directions in the 80's. now with the discovery of 'space is something" and gravity waves I am less concerned.

a less esoteric ending, for me that is, is that i predict we make the next life form in two hundred years or less. "human's, will be irrelevant. The human body may become irrelevant. "Life forms" may be around us right now and we don't even know it.

I am not talking "spiritual being", as many use that term. I am talking about using the standard model and the periodic table (which is the graphical organizer for the standard model ...lol) to support that.
I would agree, mankind is SOOO young, relatively speaking, we are like a toddler in the larger scheme of things.

I heard something awhile back that I think best describes our situation...

Fish and other aquatic life live their lives under water, this IS their world, its all they know, but right above the surface, a complex and advanced world exists, even if a fish is plucked out of the water and suddenly shown the rest of the world, it would not be able to comprehend any of it...Mankind is the fish.
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,335,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I still believe there are billions of earths full of people, but then I believe Revelation teaches this.
I want to emphasize that you could be right. We just know very little about the universe around us.
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,335,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Pop science books are entertaining.
The fermi paradox is not much of a paradox, its assumptions are on shaky foundations.
That's true. There is no way to contemplate whether or not spacefaring alien societies exist in our galaxy without relying on thought processes with shaky foundations. It's not much a mental route for people who want definite conclusions. It's more of an ideal activity for people who just want to think about what possibilities might be a few percentage points more likely than other possibilities, based on the flimsy knowledge we have available to us.

Some people see value to wondering about such prospects. Other people just say "we don't know" and choose not to hypothesize or guess at all. Neither answer is foolish.
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:50 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,510,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I would agree, mankind is SOOO young, relatively speaking, we are like a toddler in the larger scheme of things.

I heard something awhile back that I think best describes our situation...

Fish and other aquatic life live their lives under water, this IS their world, its all they know, but right above the surface, a complex and advanced world exists, even if a fish is plucked out of the water and suddenly shown the rest of the world, it would not be able to comprehend any of it...Mankind is the fish.
poop, yo hit a nerve.

yup, you are next level thinking here. That's not allowed when defending or dismissing religion.

I love ants. I watched ants for a long time, you know, before internet and cable tv.

As I was learning science/engineering; I was watching those theories being applied to 'our world", our "universe" via the physical expression of "ants".

i imagined what would it look like if our neurons had legs?

Does the neuron knows it part of a brain? anymore than an ant understands its a colony? that ant has no free will, but it thinks "I am doing this because I want too."

imagined what an ant would think when my shadow went over? or when my kids kills a dozen of them while running to the car? we were going to the playground. he never saw the ants. My kid could be described has pure joy at that moment. the ants wouldn't think so.

what would the ants think if I swished my finger back and forth over them killing some? I had no emotional reaction to the event past 'oh, that was mean of me." but it didn't stop me from poisoning the whole colony because I didn't want them in my house.

I think of "god" and 'religion" being expressed through humans like the "colony" is expressed through those ants. We just have more degrees of freedom. We are more complex.

are we part of a more complex system? is it more rational to answer "yes" or "no"? what would we call "deny everything" that people use to describe "yes"? while saying "yes" at the same time?
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:58 AM
 
63,521 posts, read 39,812,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
That's true. There is no way to contemplate whether or not spacefaring alien societies exist in our galaxy without relying on thought processes with shaky foundations. It's not much a mental route for people who want definite conclusions. It's more of an ideal activity for people who just want to think about what possibilities might be a few percentage points more likely than other possibilities, based on the flimsy knowledge we have available to us.

Some people see value to wondering about such prospects. Other people just say "we don't know" and choose not to hypothesize or guess at all. Neither answer is foolish.
There is tremendous diversity in our response to the unknown.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,681,078 times
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Of course we 'may' be alone. That is simply a function of having not determined that we are not alone. That's not a scientific discovery but just an understanding of the meaning of the term 'may'.

At any rate, it is not possible to determine that we are the sole example of life in the universe. Even if we could exhaustively explore the Milky Way, every last planet and moon, to determine that there is no other life in our neighborhood, that would still leave hundreds of billions of unexamined galaxies. The furthest known galaxy is over thirteen billion light-years away. If we could travel at near-luminal speed, it would take more than 26 billion years to travel there, check it out for life, and return to the Milky Way. And 26 billion years (significantly longer than the age of the universe) is obviously ample time for life to evolve here in the Milky Way while we were out checking out that far-flung galaxy. Thus, we'd have to return to the Milky Way and once again examine it in its entirety for life. While we were doing that, of course, life might have arisen in that far-flung galaxy that we left. And all of this doesn't even account for those hundreds of billions of other galaxies, any of which might harbor life. So it is in no way possible to know that we are the only life.
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Old 07-04-2018, 05:11 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,510,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Of course we 'may' be alone. That is simply a function of having not determined that we are not alone. That's not a scientific discovery but just an understanding of the meaning of the term 'may'.

At any rate, it is not possible to determine that we are the sole example of life in the universe. Even if we could exhaustively explore the Milky Way, every last planet and moon, to determine that there is no other life in our neighborhood, that would still leave hundreds of billions of unexamined galaxies. The furthest known galaxy is over thirteen billion light-years away. If we could travel at near-luminal speed, it would take more than 26 billion years to travel there, check it out for life, and return to the Milky Way. And 26 billion years (significantly longer than the age of the universe) is obviously ample time for life to evolve here in the Milky Way while we were out checking out that far-flung galaxy. Thus, we'd have to return to the Milky Way and once again examine it in its entirety for life. While we were doing that, of course, life might have arisen in that far-flung galaxy that we left. And all of this doesn't even account for those hundreds of billions of other galaxies, any of which might harbor life. So it is in no way possible to know that we are the only life.
yup, so what is more reasonable?

nope? or probably?
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:17 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,495,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Of course we 'may' be alone. That is simply a function of having not determined that we are not alone. That's not a scientific discovery but just an understanding of the meaning of the term 'may'.

At any rate, it is not possible to determine that we are the sole example of life in the universe. Even if we could exhaustively explore the Milky Way, every last planet and moon, to determine that there is no other life in our neighborhood, that would still leave hundreds of billions of unexamined galaxies. The furthest known galaxy is over thirteen billion light-years away. If we could travel at near-luminal speed, it would take more than 26 billion years to travel there, check it out for life, and return to the Milky Way. And 26 billion years (significantly longer than the age of the universe) is obviously ample time for life to evolve here in the Milky Way while we were out checking out that far-flung galaxy. Thus, we'd have to return to the Milky Way and once again examine it in its entirety for life. While we were doing that, of course, life might have arisen in that far-flung galaxy that we left. And all of this doesn't even account for those hundreds of billions of other galaxies, any of which might harbor life. So it is in no way possible to know that we are the only life.
Considering all the extremely different kinds of animals and lifeforms on this planet, including species that have gone extinct, like dinosaurs, saber tooth tigers, wooly mammoths, etc. this proves without a doubt who or whatever created us, is VERY VERY creative, to suggest they just stopped or limited creation to one planet or galaxy is pretty doubtful, its likely there is SO MUCH life and SO many different types of lifeforms out there, I dont think we could even grasp the scale.
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,969 posts, read 10,316,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Considering all the extremely different kinds of animals and lifeforms on this planet, including species that have gone extinct, like dinosaurs, saber tooth tigers, wooly mammoths, etc. this proves without a doubt who or whatever created us, is VERY VERY creative, to suggest they just stopped or limited creation to one planet or galaxy is pretty doubtful, its likely there is SO MUCH life and SO many different types of lifeforms out there, I dont think we could even grasp the scale.
I think you are exactly right.


Revelation 2
26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


This prophesy is not just some simple prophesy about somebody ruling alongside Jesus, it is a promise to an overcomer that receives all the promises that were spoken to Jesus and when this overcomer is promised a sole rule, that is exactly what it is, it is a sole rule where he alone rules as a guiding spirit over an entire planet, and what is being asked of this person is very unique. In my opinion, for every single overcomer, there MUST be an Earth unless each overcomer is going to take turns ruling this Earth.


What I see in this promise is that there are countless of Earths already being evolved to have humans on it, and for each one that evolves humans, a person is agreeing to one day go down to that Earth and die, and from his death, he takes a bride and becomes a ruling spirit inside the souls of an entire earth.


If Jesus was a New Adam, and Jesus can go into anyone, then what is an Adam, and how did Adam get to be ruler over an Earth?
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