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Old 07-01-2018, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Germany
2,476 posts, read 421,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
A careful study of the epistles reveals that according to Paul's beliefs Jesus had no presence as such on earth. Richard Carrier and Robert Price, both esteemed Biblical scholars with PhD's in ancient history have done treatises showing how Paul thought Jesus was a spiritual god, not a corporeal one. Paul always speaks of Jesus in the heavenly realms. He never talks at all about details of Jesus' life on earth such as Mary, his mother, his miracles, his betrayal, Pontius Pilate, the trial, the empty tomb.etc. If Paul had known about an empty tomb, being in jerusalem at the time he surely would have mentioned it in the epistles but he doesn't. Paul doesn't even know Judas had killed himself and there were only 11 disciples. Paul says Jesus appeared to the 12 when there were only 11. Paul knows none of this which means the Christian theology was still in its primitive state and hadn't evolved. 40 years after Paul's death when the gospels are being written the theology is being tweaked and changed to suit the prevailing times and that's when all these details about Christ's life start to emerge.
Paul even calls Jesus an angel in Galatians 4:14. Revelations also calls Jesus an angel.

Hebrews says he was a divine being greater than the angels, and who sacrificed once and once only in a heavenly tabernacle not made by human hands.

I had read some of Carriers arguments and found them possible but not convincing. It was not until I read the epistle to the Hebrews that I stopped believing in a historical Jesus.
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Germany
2,476 posts, read 421,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Wrong.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

1 Cor. 15:3-7
that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures. So revealed in the Old Testament.

And the Greek for 'appear' can also be used to mean seen in visions, and not as a resurrected man.
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:05 AM
 
2,747 posts, read 856,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Acts is a second century AD fake history that contradicts Paul's letters.
Nu uh!
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Germany
2,476 posts, read 421,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As the following statements of Paul show, in which he states that Jesus was born of a woman, born a descendant of David after the flesh, and that he was made in the likeness of men, Paul knew full well of an 'earthly Jesus.'
Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

Romans 1:3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,

Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6] who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7] but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Paul doesn't go into the details of Jesus' life as the Gospels do because Paul's letters weren't Gospels. His letters generally addressed problems within the churches to which he wrote, and matters of Christian doctrine.
All using the word for made, produced (as Philippians 2:7 as it).

Romans 1:2 also says this was a revelation in scripture, and not an actual historical birth.
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Germany
2,476 posts, read 421,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Trying to prove the nonexistence of what he believes didnt happen is an irrational obsession of atheists.
They dont even notice.
Yet when historians do this, it is rational?

Trying to get to the truth is irrational to you?
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Germany
2,476 posts, read 421,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
THRILLOYTE! You never referenced my "lost tomb " theory which I have explained over and over again in your argument!

I think I made the most valid modern point.....if this momentous event happened, then why, to this day, is there no proof at all and no common agreement on WHERE this supposed miraculous tomb supposedly is?
It does seem strange no one was interested in this tomb until Helena was sold some wood in the 4th century AD.

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Old 07-01-2018, 06:28 AM
 
8,661 posts, read 11,913,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Wrong.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

1 Cor. 15:3-7
It's interesting that Jimmie seems to think this verse is more "authoritative" than the gospels.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:51 AM
 
Location: knoxville, Tn.
4,457 posts, read 1,040,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
With one of them writing over 80 years after he allegedly died.

But thank you for putting forward your unsubstantiated OPINIONS with absolutely no verifiable evidence.

Time does not altar truth.



What I posted is not an unsubstantiated opinion. WE have 4 accounts give by men who considered bearing false witness a sin against their God. If only one hare reported it, you might have a point, but all 4 reported it. You have no evidence it did not happen as reported. You don't want to believe it, so you don't.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:53 AM
 
Location: knoxville, Tn.
4,457 posts, read 1,040,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I would hardly think of someone who claims that an executed man was dead for three days then resurrected himself, as being honest.

What you THINK is irrelevant and certainly not evidence.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:55 AM
 
Location: knoxville, Tn.
4,457 posts, read 1,040,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Acts is a second century AD fake history that contradicts Paul's letters.

How?
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