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Gnosticism has always been rejected by the early church and the Apostle John in his First Epistle chapters two and four indirectly mention Gnostics as being antichrists which makes up the background of that Epistles.
You mean the same John who says there are two gods (a Gnostic position) in John 8? Did you know Catholic theologians have been forbidden to discuss the Gnostic nature of the gospel according to John since the 1800's, by Papal decree?
Wellhausen theory is a racist political view of the Jews which Hitler used to justify what he did to the Jews.
Wellhausen refuted the account of the OLD Testament. That hardly makes him racist, and we do not rely on his work, especially with regard to the NEW Testament.
Hitler used the theological works of Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism, and renowned for his anti Semitism. He even argued for their murder.
Wellhausen refuted the account of the OLD Testament. That hardly makes him racist, and we do not rely on his work, especially with regard to the NEW Testament.
Hitler used the theological works of Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism, and renowned for his anti Semitism. He even argued for their murder.
Atheism is politics and not religion. Wellhausen theory is a racist political view of the Jews which Hitler used to justify what he did to the Jews.
atheism is not politics. all we do is come up with rules without the words "god said so". that doesn't stop some of us coming up with the stupidest laws ever. Just like theist do.
no, wellhausen, as others said, was just arguing against the theology. You are doing the same thing as people do when they call me a bigot because I say close the border and control immigration because we have around a 20 trillion dollar debt. Its not the same thing.
This is only half true. Simply put, atheism means the absence of theistic belief. That's it. It doesn't mean anything else. Atheism is not a religion, a philosophy, a worldview, or a political movement. It is not the belief that there are no gods, ghosts, angels, etc. Rather, it is the absence of a belief that these things are real...like not believing in the existence of Santa Claus, atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism is not a religion. Nor is it a political movement. While in my experience it MAY be true that the majority of atheists are liberal politically, I also know atheists that are conservative politically. The absence of theistic belief is not inanofitself either politically liberal or conservative.
I was raised to be a fundamentalist Pentecostal Christian. By the time I was 13 however, it had become clear to me that Christian claims are far too silly for them to have any real possibility for being true. I was an atheist by definition at that point, and I reached that conclusion all on my own. That was in 1961, and in 1961 openly avowed atheists were few and far between. I had never met another openly avowed atheist when I was 13, although I understood that they existed. I wouldn't meet my first openly atheistic person until I began college in 1966. I freely admit to being politically liberal myself. But it is not a requirement of atheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fezilla
Wellhausen theory is a racist political view of the Jews which Hitler used to justify what he did to the Jews.
The notion that the five books of the Torah was written by various unknown individuals and were NOT written by Moses and therefore were NOT given directly to Moses by God, as fundamentalists insist, is a simple observation. The best way to directly establish this is by considering the fifth book of the Torah, Deuteronomy.
2 Kings:
[8] "And Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it.
[9] And Shaphan the scribe came to the king, and brought the king word again, and said, Thy servants have gathered the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of them that do the work, that have the oversight of the house of the LORD.
[10] And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king.
[11] And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes.
[12] And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying,
[13] Go ye, inquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us."
2 Chronicles
[14] "And when they brought out the money that was brought into the house of the LORD, Hilkiah the priest found a book of the law of the LORD given by Moses.
[15] And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan.
[16] And Shaphan carried the book to the king, and brought the king word back again, saying, All that was committed to thy servants, they do it.
[17] And they have gathered together the money that was found in the house of the LORD, and have delivered it into the hand of the overseers, and to the hand of the workmen.
[18] Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king.
[19] And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes.
[20] And the king commanded Hilkiah, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king's, saying,
[21] Go, inquire of the LORD for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD, to do after all that is written in this book."
The book of the law that was "found" was Deuteronomy. This occurred during the reign of King Josiah. (649–609 BCE) Jews and Christians have proclaimed Deuteronomy to be a valid book of the law, written by the hand of Moses under the inspiration and guidance of God Himself. And so Deuteronomy is firmly entrenched as the fifth book of the Torah/Pentateuch by devout Jews and Christians today. The first Temple in Jerusalem was constructed during the reign of King Solomon (961-922 BC). Moses is traditionally believed to have lived somewhere around the 12th or 13th century BC, although many modern historians consider Moses to be an entirely fictional character.
In other words Deuteronomy, a book which fundamentalist Christian and Jewish scholars unconditionally maintain was written by Moses himself, and which no one even suspected existed prior to its "discovery" in 621, lay hidden for some 600-700 years in the Temple of Solomon which was built 300-400 years after Moses died, in a city, Jerusalem, which Moses never managed to reach in his lifetime. Now that is really fine trick. Damn near unbelievable in fact. A book which appears for the first time some 700 years or so after the death of the man who is supposed to have written it is a book with a very suspicious background, to say the least. When we are then told that the book was discovered hidden in a building which was not even constructed for several centuries after the death of it's author, most reasonable people might be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that the claims may be somewhat less than realistic. For 700 years or so, a book of the law of God Himself that no even suspected existed, much less was missing turns up in a building not even constructed for centuries after the author of the book died. In other words, for 700 years the provisions and commands proclaimed by God Himself contained in Deuteronomy went unknown and therefore ignored. OUCH! Now that is what I call a serious religious faux pas.
Fundamentalism of course is not concerned with facts. Fundamentalism is concerned with faith and unquestioned belief. But How does a Book of God become so "lost" that no even suspected that it ever existed for centuries? And what new information does it contain? Let's have a look.
Deut.12
[1] "These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.
[2] Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:
[3] And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.
[4] Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God.
[5] But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
[6] And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:"
No more consecrating your offerings to the Lord in any place but the place God chooses, and it better be the very finest offerings you have, by HIM, or else. And of course by the time the "lost" book was "found," the place of His choosing had long been chosen. The temple in Jerusalem, the very stronghold of the Levite priests. After the consecration ceremony, the offered goods became the property of the Levites.
Deut.12
[16] "Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:
[17] Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee."
Deut.18
[1] "The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
[2] Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
[3] And this shall be the priest's due from the people, from them that offer a sacrifice, whether it be ox or sheep; and they shall give unto the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the maw.
[4] The firstfruit also of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him."
Wow! What a huge break for the Levites! Three times a year you must come to Jerusalem and make your offering to the Lord of the finest things you possess. And once your offering is consecrated it becomes the property of the Levites.
But there is more:
Deut. 17
[14] When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
[15] Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother."
The Jews had never had a king over them during the time of Moses. But Moses predicts that one day they will have their own land and will one day have a king over them. Well wasn't Moses clairvoyant. 700 years later the Jewish nation does indeed have a king. And Deuteronomy endorses the title and position and sacntifies it, making the position of King one determined by God Himself. What a break for King Josiah! He now holds his position by right as the Divine Will of God.
What an amazing boon for the king and the Levite priests Deuteronomy proved to be. Deuteronomy could hardly have been more beneficial to them then if they had written it themselves.
Jewish Encyclopedia
Age and Authorship of Deuteronomy. It is the unanimous opinion of modern critics that Deuteronomy is not the work of Moses, but that it was, in its main parts, written in the seventh century B.C., either during the reign of Manasseh, or during that of Josiah (but before his eighteenth year, the Book of the Law found in that year in theTemple [see II Kings xxii.-xxiii.] clearly containing Deuteronomy, if indeed it included anything more). DEUTERONOMY - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Even the Jews accept that Deuteronomy was not written by Moses. Modern analysis indicates that the OT was revised and rewritten by many hands over a course of centuries.
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 07-18-2018 at 08:30 AM..
This is only half true. Simply put, atheism means the absence of theistic belief. That's it. It doesn't mean anything else. Atheism is not a religion, a philosophy, a worldview, or a political movement. It is not the belief that there are no gods, ghosts, angels, etc. Rather, it is the absence of a belief that these things are real...like not believing in the existence of Santa Claus, atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism is not a religion. Nor is it a political movement. While in my experience it MAY be true that the majority of atheists are liberal politically, I also know atheists that are conservative politically. The absence of theistic belief is not inanofitself either politically liberal or conservative.
Even the Jews accept that Deuteronomy was not written by Moses. Modern analysis indicates that the OT was revised and rewritten by many hands over a course of centuries.
are jews non literal bible? or tora, whatever it is they use.
are jews non literal bible? or tora, whatever it is they use.
The term "Jew" generally refers to individuals who have an inherited a background that is Jewish. Half of American Jews (an inherited background of Judaism) are atheists, having doubts concerning the existence of God. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism
Would they have any evidence if they did not invent it?
What evidence?
That evil institution known as the Vatican has one of the most extensive, if not the most extensive, historical libraries dating back thousands of years BCE. One would think that they were at least deviously clever enough to intertwine actual events with their fiction to lend some credence. But no; the early church leaders probably never considered that the masses would eventually become educated & learn to think for themselves.
What evidence?
That evil institution known as the Vatican has one of the most extensive, if not the most extensive, historical libraries dating back thousands of years BCE. One would think that they were at least deviously clever enough to intertwine actual events with their fiction to lend some credence. But no; the early church leaders probably never considered that the masses would eventually become educated & learn to think for themselves.
For centuries lay people learning Latin was forbidden by the church under penalty of death. The church wanted to keep access to scripture the sole domain of the priests.
The term "Jew" generally refers to individuals who have an inherited a background that is Jewish. Half of American Jews (an inherited background of Judaism) are atheists, having doubts concerning the existence of God. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism
hmmm, sounds like birthrights starting to be in play here.
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