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Its always best to listen to Jesus on a matter. He clearly teaches---Enter through the narrow gate( a single path) for cramped is the road that leads off into life, FEW are the ones finding it. For many have entered the broad and spacious path( all the other paths) that leads to destruction.
So what if one is not a Christian? Can they listen to their God (whom I believe is the same God as the Christian God), or will they be condemned to hell because they didn't listen to your version of God?
So what if one is not a Christian? Can they listen to their God (whom I believe is the same God as the Christian God), or will they be condemned to hell because they didn't listen to your version of God?
Worshippers of the flying
spaghetti monster are doomed
to the great pot of ragu.
All other travellers of the
spiritual hiway shall find
well stocked rest areas.
Some people believe in more than one God, just as strongly as you believe in only one. if you think they are wrong and you are right, then you are being close-minded.
WHY is he "closed minded", just because he believe what is true? ANY who claim to believe in Jesus should know this to be true. that there's ONLY "one true God" who ALL must get to know if they want life, Jesus words! ,(John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). there were MANY religious beliefs in Jesus time and before he came to Earth. as well as MANY "gods", false gods, like baal. it was ONLY the Israelites who worship the TRUE GOD. and this God gave Moses the name that he was to give to the Israelites. which was Hebrew Yahweh ,English Jehovah (Exo. 6:3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them).
"God", was NOT the God of those false worshippers then, and he's NOT the God of false worshippers now. despite what many want to believe. not all religion leads to eternal life. Jesus show you will know the tree by the fruit it bares ,(Matt. 7:15-20 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them). so though most religion teach some truth. just as in the days of the Israelites, today there's ONLY one total true teaching. we must find it in order to be saved. peace
God see that some religions are for Him , but God only interacts with the religion that He authored and ordained ......
"God only interacts with the religion that He authored and ordained", exactly! many says Jesus, some says Jehovah, but many of those same ones does NOT follow Jesus teachings or steps. (Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?). see also (Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me). Jesus said he NOR his are part of this world ,(John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world). yet MANY religious leaders and their flocks, join in with the world and much of what it offers. Jehovah and Jesus does NOT half step, or straddles the fence, neither should we. peace
"God only interacts with the religion that He authored and ordained", exactly! many says Jesus, some says Jehovah, but many of those same ones does NOT follow Jesus teachings or steps. (Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?). see also (Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me). Jesus said he NOR his are part of this world ,(John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world). yet MANY religious leaders and their flocks, join in with the world and much of what it offers. Jehovah and Jesus does NOT half step, or straddles the fence, neither should we. peace
Yeah, and we all know where this "we are not a part of the world" philosophy leads -- because it lends justification to commit horrific atrocities or to simply ignore those who are suffering.
I've seen that before ... both in the real world and right here on this forum.
"Oh, but your physical pain is only temporary so, really, why bother trying to improve your life when you can just wait until you die. Then you won't be in pain anymore!"
Which usually translates into: "Why should I have to pay for someone else's healthcare?" And thus we, the most religious industrialized nation by far, resist with full fury the idea of universal, nationalized healthcare. Instead, you'll treat it like any other unnecessary luxury because, hey, your medical conditions are "of this world" and so you'll just have to deal with it.
Money is also "of this world" and yet a lot of religious leaders seem to have an aweful lot of it. As well as an extensive porn collection, but I guess watching naked strangers having sex isn't "of this world."
Sorry, but that philosophy is morally bankrupt at its very core. It stands to reason that a cult leader like Jesus would tell everyone not to be "of this world" -- because, like every other cult leader in history, Jesus promoted the idea to convince his followers to sever their ties to family, friends, careers, possessions, and property and rely exclusively upon him.
It's like the old story of Cortez burning his ships upon reaching the New World because he knew his men would be well motivated and loyal since they had no way back to Europe. Cult leaders always bamboozle their followers to "burn their ships" as a way to extract loyalty and to erase doubt and uncertainty about the leader's fitness to lead or his religious ideology.
Hence the "I am not of this world -- and you shouldn't be, either" speech. Here's a torch. Go burn your ships.
So what if one is not a Christian? Can they listen to their God (whom I believe is the same God as the Christian God), or will they be condemned to hell because they didn't listen to your version of God?
Gods will = John 4:22-24---One must know truth. Jesus clearly teaches--Matt 7:21--Only those living now to do his Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom.
Harry D.----Did you miss Rev 16--Those that follow their govt will be mislead to stand in opposition to Jesus. A kingdom= govt, armies, supporters. It has begun to be lead to this point. When Trump was at the UN this spring, he told all--stand for your country( kingdom)patriotism) no matter what. And 99% will. 3 inspired expressions will hit them in the heart like 3 9/11,s.
Gods will = John 4:22-24---One must know truth. Jesus clearly teaches--Matt 7:21--Only those living now to do his Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom.
Based on that statement "Only those living now ... " everyone born after 33 AD is doomed. (At least that's what your church teaches.)
WHY is he "closed minded", just because he believe what is true?
He doesn't believe "what is true."
He believes what he believes. Simply believing in something doesn't make it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
ANY who claim to believe in Jesus should know this to be true. that there's ONLY "one true God" who ALL must get to know if they want life, Jesus words!
Yep, it's the "worship me or else" clause in the cultist contract.
Every religion with a deity at its center claims to worship the "one true god." Why pick Jesus? Because you just happened to be born into a Jesus-believing culture? Especially here in America, it's not like anyone has any real choice in the matter. Unless you're born into a non-Christian family, you're pretty much stuck with Christianity -- because rare indeed are the Christian parents who encourage their children to seek their own answers, investigate other beliefs, and pick the one best suited to their own worldview.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
(John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent).
Bible quotes doesn't get anyone any closer to the truth than quotes from "The Hobbit" or any of the various Harry Potter stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
there were MANY religious beliefs in Jesus time and before he came to Earth. as well as MANY "gods", false gods, like baal.
Here's another false god -- the Canaanite god El.
Too bad, huh, that Yahweh was a transmogrified version of El that was better suited to the likings of the Hebrews -- a splinter faction of El worship. The Hebrews didn't like the blood sacrifices El demanded. Except the Hebrews could never quite get away from human sacrifices despite reinventing El into a slightly nicer god. Very slightly, I might add. This penchant for parents murdering their own children to appease El followed the Hebrews wherever they went; as it turned out, Yahweh needed to be equally as bloodthirsty as El -- hence we have the sacrifice of Jesus.
No matter how beautifully Christians try to package that story, in truth, all we're dealing with here regarding Jesus's crucifixion is a horrific god demanding his own child be murdered for his own appeasement.
There's nothing beautiful about human sacrifices made to savage gods; if Christians saw it taking place within another religion, they'd scream "bloody murder" and even attempt to wipe out said religion (which is precisely what happened to the Aztecs, by the way).
But when the Christian god murders his own son, well, that's okay, I guess.
There are false gods aplenty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
it was ONLY the Israelites who worship the TRUE GOD. and this God gave Moses the name that he was to give to the Israelites. which was Hebrew Yahweh ,English Jehovah (Exo. 6:3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them).
Oh really? Is that a fact?
The way I see it -- which is from a Biblical perspective -- the ONLY reason why Yahweh became the so-called "one true god" is because the Israelites committed over two dozen acts of genocide against innocent people. The only "crime" those people committed was not worshiping Yahweh. For that, they deserved to be slaughtered to a man, woman, and child.
Let's not kid ourselves here. In the Bronze Age, might makes right ... truth does not make right. Might does. Get it? This has been true all the way up to modern times and still might be just as true today.
There were dozens if not hundreds of tribal gods worshiped by individual city-states all throughout the region of Palestine, modern-day Israel, Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon. Due to attrition, natural disasters, and Israelite aggression, most of those city-states were wiped out taking their home-grown religions with them.
Yahweh, which, as I've said, was created by a splinter faction of El worshipers who wanted to go their own way, was just one of dozens of petty, small-time tribal gods worshiped by individual groups of Bedouins. There is no reason, NO reason, to suppose Yahweh is "the one true" anything at all. Just because it managed to survive for 3,000 years through conquest and oppression doesn't mean that god even exists much less is the only god around.
What makes it all the more absurd is that Yahweh was meant for the Israelites -- and the Israelites ONLY. Are you a Hebrew, by chance, Jojo? Because if you're not, you're worshiping someone else's god.
Yahweh was NEVER meant to be worshiped by anyone else -- which is why the Israelites simply murdered everyone who got in their way instead of trying to convert them. Even today, Jews do not proselytize or try to convert people to the Jewish faith. Because Yahweh is THEIR god and the supposedly "coming messiah" is THEIR messiah -- for THEM. Since the Jews reject Jesus as the true messiah, guess what that means?
Yeah, it means Jesus was nothing more than a messianic cult leader like Jim Jones or David Koresh. Christianity is to Judaism as Islam is to Christianity -- a splinter faction that managed to gain prominence through violence and conquest.
This also creates a question no believer seems able or willing to answer: WHY would the so-called "One True God" create an entire universe and populate it with trillions of galaxies, quintillions of stars, and virtually infinite light years of space -- only to suddenly develop a laser-focus on an insignificant tribe of desert nomads living in a sparsely populated backwater of one singuler planet in an unremarkable part of the universe?
Makes no sense whatsoever.
It's obvious the Hebrews made up Yahweh out of whole cloth to give their tribe legitimacy and a unifying force. This is precisely the reason why Yahweh was completely unknown in places where Hebrews were unknown. Strange, too, how Moses always had to receive god's laws all by himself with no witnesses. I mean, gee, that's almost as silly as Joseph Smith sticking his face in a hat to receive the translation of the Book of Mormon -- as if God couldn't simply give Smith a copy in English, ya know? And of course it was in a hat where no one else could see what was REALLY in there.
At any rate ... if you believe in the Bible and take the stories literally ... we don't even know if Adam and Eve were Hebrew. It's as if Hebrews just suddenly sprung out of the ground and became the most important people on the planet. And WHY would God even HAVE a "Chosen People" if he's so concerned about the rest of humanity?
Hebrew myths and legends talk about humanity as a whole despite the fact that the religion of Yahweh only applied to them. The laws in the Old Testament only applied to them. Yet despite this, God seemed very willing to punish everyone -- even people who couldn't have possibly known about Yahweh and his laws -- for committing "sins" the rest of the world couldn't have possibly known they were committing.
This still makes perfect sense to you, does it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
"God", was NOT the God of those false worshippers then, and he's NOT the God of false worshippers now. despite what many want to believe. not all religion leads to eternal life.
Because NONE of them do.
If there even is such a thing as eternal life, we ALL experience it regardless of which petty, angry god we decide to worship -- regardless of what we do with our sexual bits, regardless of who we marry, regardless of which ritual phrases we blather into the air, regardless of which incense we wave around, regardless of which church we attend, regardless of which holy book we believe is the truth.
It is again preposterous to think that human beings are supposed to disentangle Christianity from all the rest of the religions and identify IT as the only correct religion -- especially for those who are born into a non-Christian religious culture that often extends far further back in time than either Judaism or Christianity. There's no reason why a Hindu, for instance, with a 5,000 year-old religion would feel compelled to reject their own beliefs in favor of a Western religion that's only 3,000 years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
Jesus show you will know the tree by the fruit it bares ,(Matt. 7:15-20 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them).
Yes, this is more occultism followed up with a veiled threat. It's important to every cult leader to insulate his followers from "contaminating" ideas -- ideas that contradict, criticize, and challenge the cult leader's ideology. This is why such passages exist in the Bible. It is an attempt to trick followers into rejecting other ideas, other beliefs, other worldviews simply because they are different -- and NOT because of critical thought, analysis, logic, or examination. No, reject it because it contradicts the will of the all-mighty prophet -- even if what they say makes perfect sense, both "common" and logical.
Thus the cult leader is saying: "Instead, believe in the gobbledy-goo(k) I've slapped together. Not because it makes sense. But because I said so -- and if you don't, I'll chop you down and throw you into the fire like those trees which bear bad fruit."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50
so though most religion teach some truth. just as in the days of the Israelites, today there's ONLY one total true teaching. we must find it in order to be saved. peace
There is no intrinsic truth to be found in Christianity -- just as there is nothing to be "saved" from.
Unfortunately, this belief in needing salvation is the primary vehicle with which the Christ Cult kept followers dependant on the cult. If you don't get on your face and worship Jesus -- and through him, Yahweh -- you won't be given salvation, don'tchya know! And you wouldn't want that, now ... would you? Of course not.
And if not for the gullibility and ignorance of one Emperor Constantine, both Christianity and Judaism would be minor fringe beliefs -- if either still existed at all. In addition, if not for the barbarism and brutality of Charlamagne, Christianity still may have failed.
Christianity exists today primarily because of oppression, violence, and bigotry. The entire reason why the Catholics dominated Western civilization for a thousand years was because, yeah, you guessed it -- they slaughtered all their rivals. But what do you expect from an institution that beatified Nazi war criminals the moment they got out of prison for their crimes against humanity. Ya know?
When one looks at religion from an historical perspective rather than a holy, sacred, or revered perspective, the entire house of cards collapses as if in a tornado.
Last edited by Shirina; 08-06-2018 at 09:44 PM..
Reason: It's truly amazing the words that get censored. I wish there was a context checker to go along with the bad word checker.
Harry D.----Did you miss Rev 16--Those that follow their govt will be mislead to stand in opposition to Jesus. A kingdom= govt, armies, supporters. It has begun to be lead to this point. When Trump was at the UN this spring, he told all--stand for your country( kingdom)patriotism) no matter what. And 99% will. 3 inspired expressions will hit them in the heart like 3 9/11,s.
Right ... a religious sect that stands on the shoulders of those who defend and protect your right to be against the very people who gave you that freedom.
But whoever said religion has to make sense.
Hitler used to throw JWs into the gas chambers -- he hated them, too. I guess no amount of freedom is good enough.
If you truly believe that every government will lead you to stand in opposition to Jesus, then you're guaranteed to find an example of it ... which means, I suppose, that the only kind of earthly realm acceptable to JWs is total anarchy. Some sort of apocalyptic Mad Max world with roving rape gangs, isolated little tribes huddled behind walls trying to eke out a living amid the lack of infrastructure, law, organization, or government. A place where strolling beyond the walls of your enclave is more dangerous than a frontline war zone, a place where joining a gang or being accepted by one of those tribes is the only possible way to survive.
See, mom? No government! No opposition to Jesus!
Moderator cut: Politics
And where did intense tribalism and nationalism get us? Oh right: A plethora of lunatic dictators, a Holocaust, a global war, some 80 million dead, millions more raped, hundreds of millions traumatized, nearly every major city from Madrid to Tokyo left in ruins ...
Why listen to that guy.
I doubt 99% will ... as you say ... but at least 99% don't believe in your rather extreme religion and that is a good thing.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-07-2018 at 01:09 PM..
Reason: Specifically political remarks removed
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