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Old 08-22-2018, 09:57 AM
Status: "Humanitarian" (set 24 days ago)
 
2,823 posts, read 497,054 times
Reputation: 1626

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Well of course your colleague is going to say that, if they are either an atheist/ secular or a low church Evangelical Protestant that wants to generalize from everything they read in the news.
I have heard similar comments as well.
The whole thing is still in process, and those that were involved have been gradually weeded out, so we can all move on and move forward.
I have no idea what my colleague's religious views are or were. This happened 10 years ago.

Regardless, the Catholic church is not better than a criminal organization, and those parishioners who still support it are complicit.

How can it start turning that around? First, turn over every priest, every bishop, every cardinal, and every retired member of the clergy who the Catholic church knew about over to the police for investigation.

Ever. Single. One. Of. Them.

That would be a start. Then show what proactive steps it has taken to ensure none of this can ever happen again.

If you are Catholic, there is nothing stopping you from practicing your faith at home. You don't need a church to go to. And yes, I understand that means you won't be taking communion for awhile.
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Old 08-22-2018, 09:59 AM
Status: "Humanitarian" (set 24 days ago)
 
2,823 posts, read 497,054 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
You're giving the true perpetrators a break by blaming their flock: That measure of blame rests squarely on the shoulders of those who shield abusers. This isn't a matter of politics. It's a matter of living up to our responsibility as a society to protect children. Excessive deference to religion has a corrupting impact, and has resulted in coddling of those who had knowingly put children at risk on their own personal judgement rather than deferring to society in such matters. Our society doesn't allow stoning heretics to death; it shouldn't allow any rationalizations for failing to inform the police about child abuse. There should be indictments; there should be criminal trials; there should be jail time.
No, I am not blaming the flock for the criminal activities of the church. I am blaming the flock for continuing to support that church. Unless and until that church starts turning over the known predators to the police, it can not redeem itself. And the flock should insist on that happening.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,238 posts, read 4,228,306 times
Reputation: 1296
Sick, they need to put that Bishop in jail, he is as guilty as the abusers.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:45 AM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 10 days ago)
 
5,285 posts, read 1,324,609 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestGuest View Post
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/09...abuse-victims/


Why again are we paying their property taxes for them?
Because not all religious teachers are like that. The ones that are need to go to jail for a long time.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:48 AM
 
7,108 posts, read 2,889,270 times
Reputation: 9791
This guy needs to be defrocked. He is an embarrassment to the Catholic Church. Hard to believe he even said that...
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,259 posts, read 10,376,934 times
Reputation: 6929
Two threads on the same topic have been merged together. If it's confusing, perhaps you should have reported the second thread instead of replying in it. It's not too much to ask to at least glance down the first page of the forum to see if a thread already exists on a topic before starting anew one.
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:04 PM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,699 posts, read 8,159,083 times
Reputation: 7958
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
No, I am not blaming the flock for the criminal activities of the church. I am blaming the flock for continuing to support that church.
I didn't say what specifically you were blaming the flock for. That wasn't the point of my comment, which was that by blaming their flock you were giving the true perpetrators a break. Actively shielding abusers is so egregious that I can see no rational basis on which to focus on the offense of "supporting that church" without more prominently highlighting the active shielding of abusers. It is a bit like assailing the pen pal of a murderer instead of assailing the murderer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Unless and until that church starts turning over the known predators to the police, it can not redeem itself. And the flock should insist on that happening.
No: We should insist on that happening. It shouldn't be up to the flock. The failure is ours, together with them - not theirs especially.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:04 PM
 
731 posts, read 473,964 times
Reputation: 903
Why all the censorship warnings. No politics- no singling out of a particular religion? If Islamic Terrorists blew up a building - could we not discuss which religion it is? Can't. a topic incur more than one subject? Wasn't politics involved in church cover-ups? Wasn't it politics on how churches got property tax exemptions(. ie the legiislature and constitutional convention for each state?
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,238 posts, read 4,228,306 times
Reputation: 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestGuest View Post
Why all the censorship warnings. No politics- no singling out of a particular religion? If Islamic Terrorists blew up a building - could we not discuss which religion it is? Can't. a topic incur more than one subject? Wasn't politics involved in church cover-ups? Wasn't it politics on how churches got property tax exemptions(. ie the legiislature and constitutional convention for each state?
I thank God for the mods keeping politics out of religion, politics has no business here, if it were allowed, there wouldn't be any discussion of religion at all. I may as well go to the politics forum, and I do not want to speak of politics, it is so, SO depressing, and besides that, everyone would hate one another. Thanks again Mods, great job!
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,837 posts, read 9,645,205 times
Reputation: 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
I lived in a town established by the Catholic church back in the 1800's. In fact, the original chapel is still preserved.

A home for retired priests was built besides the Bishop's 'palace'. A colleague of mine asked what was going up there, I told him, and his immediate response was, "Where are the bars?"

Yes, the reputation is that bad. And until the Catholic church turns those criminal priests, bishops and cardinals over to the police, it can not ever, ever regain any sort of positive reputation. Ever.
I think that one of the main things responsible for this problem is the Church's prohibition of priest being able to marry and the problem they have with homosexuality. These guy, in my opinion, are not all outright paedophiles, probably very few are but sexual activity is something we all have to indulge in and if we can't get things through normal channels, we are force to go down other roads.

An example of this is instances of homosexual acts in prisons. In cases of very long term imprisonment, we find this practice amongst men who are, under normal circumstances, perfectly normal heterosexuals.

Lifting the banning of priests marrying and of course, accepting that homosexuality is not a 'sin', would solve much of the problem
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