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Old 08-24-2018, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
14,530 posts, read 11,516,146 times
Reputation: 21030

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The blame too lies with us the public for preferring to airbrush all this out of the way, its been done for a long time.. a taboo subject with abuse going on in childrens homes that no one cared or wanted to listen about.. when these children tried to tell anyone they could trust , people mostly turned away partly as they either didnt want to believe, didnt believe or were afraid of their own jobs and position to dig in and do more to help.. have you never noticed even in politicts the subject of Paedos and child abuse is hardly ever brought up.. no one asks for votes saying they would clean up churches, schools ,orphanages etc .. only with our Saville case in the UK hardly anyone was exposed...........the police knew about Saville and his antics with children for years and did nothing about it.. hospitals knew and yet let him work there as a porter.. where he would prey on young women and children on the wards..a sick deviant who was given keys to molest women in care facilities.. this all went on not so long ago and he got away with it all.. he mixed with the highest in the land when police knew.. despicable.....same with some MPs who died before it all came out about them preying on small boys... People knew and yet as a taboo subject it was brushed under the carpet... Children need our help , we have to listen no matter how high up in our estimation someone is... be it a relative , priest, teacher. MP, listen to children, as it will ruin lives. Have a read at this. and see how many knew and did nothing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-8200776.html
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:07 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,690 posts, read 8,175,527 times
Reputation: 7999
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I don't hold with self - denial. Self - control yes. But giving up food, or money or sex because someone told you that this is what a god wants is making a fool of themselves. But that's their choice.
We're not talking about what a couple of priests do with each other behind closed doors - we're talking about what a priest does to a minor child. Any attempt to call refraining from that "self-denial" is abhorrent.

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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
... to prey on victims, this is criminal. And if the organisation covers it up, the organisation is an accessory to the crime.
Precisely my point.

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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I agree in the ideal, but we do not live in a bubble, and it is not an ideal world. We should work towards it, which is why blaming the woman for the uncontrollable lusts of the man is wrong.
Sorry - no sale. Ideal doesn't start until far far past where we're talking about. Refraining from child sexual abuse is not the hallmark of the ideal - it is one criterion for the absolute bare minimum.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:37 AM
 
34,621 posts, read 8,924,012 times
Reputation: 4802
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
We're not talking about what a couple of priests do with each other behind closed doors - we're talking about what a priest does to a minor child. Any attempt to call refraining from that "self-denial" is abhorrent.

Precisely my point.

Sorry - no sale. Ideal doesn't start until far far past where we're talking about. Refraining from child sexual abuse is not the hallmark of the ideal - it is one criterion for the absolute bare minimum.
No. This is a red herring. The urge and maybe the cause (within the Catholic celibates) is the same. That minors are involved is crime that results rather than a breaking of the organisations' rules. The results are very different, but that does not mean that the cause is two different causes.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:02 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,358 posts, read 50,609,566 times
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My former Episcopal priest was ordained a Catholic priest in his youth. He posted his thoughts on social media the other day, and one of his points was interesting.

Part of the problem is that the RCC believed that once you are ordained a priest, it is forever, and so they didn't defrock priests. That's why they simply moved them--because they did not believe they could strip them of their priesthood.
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,961 posts, read 8,900,001 times
Reputation: 18341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My former Episcopal priest was ordained a Catholic priest in his youth. He posted his thoughts on social media the other day, and one of his points was interesting.

Part of the problem is that the RCC believed that once you are ordained a priest, it is forever, and so they didn't defrock priests. That's why they simply moved them--because they did not believe they could strip them of their priesthood.
Well, not quite. They can and occasionally do a process called "laicization".
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,312 posts, read 4,257,663 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I think that one of the main things responsible for this problem is the Church's prohibition of priest being able to marry and the problem they have with homosexuality. These guy, in my opinion, are not all outright paedophiles, probably very few are but sexual activity is something we all have to indulge in and if we can't get things through normal channels, we are force to go down other roads.

An example of this is instances of homosexual acts in prisons. In cases of very long term imprisonment, we find this practice amongst men who are, under normal circumstances, perfectly normal heterosexuals.

Lifting the banning of priests marrying and of course, accepting that homosexuality is not a 'sin', would solve much of the problem
I don't see it as sex at all, It is of violence, it is an extremely violent and harming another person willingly in full knowledge of the harm and violence you are committing against them.
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:55 PM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,690 posts, read 8,175,527 times
Reputation: 7999
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
No. This is a red herring.
Nonsense. There absolutely is a big difference between consenting adults doing something in private and a mature adult abusing a child. Until you admit that, there's really not much credibility in what you are posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I don't see it as sex at all, It is of violence, it is an extremely violent and harming another person willingly in full knowledge of the harm and violence you are committing against them.
Precisely. What two priests do behind closed doors is sex. What a priest does to a child is violence.
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:34 PM
 
11,685 posts, read 13,101,708 times
Reputation: 30982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I thank God for the mods keeping politics out of religion, politics has no business here, if it were allowed, there wouldn't be any discussion of religion at all. I may as well go to the politics forum, and I do not want to speak of politics, it is so, SO depressing, and besides that, everyone would hate one another. Thanks again Mods, great job!
Unfortunately we human beings and our governments and religions do not keep politics out of religion, and some discussions of religions are empty of meaning without an acknowledgement of their political aspect. Within the lifetime of probably everyone reading this forum countries such as Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus have had particular religions so entwined with their government that you cannot discuss their predominate religion without discussing the role it plays in government.

And how would one discuss the government of Saudi Arabia without discussing its majority religion and the part it plays in government. How can the Tibetan government in exile be discussed without acknowledging the fact that the government of Tibet prior to the Communist takeover was a Vajrayana Buddhist religious government.

One may hate the taint of politics in religion, but when it is there it matters, just as the taint of religious corruption matters when it is shielded by political office holders and, thus, corrupts secular affairs.

The only "solution" might be to confine all discussions in the religious forums to matters of doctrine....(but even then) and leave morality out of it. Once you start considering religious morality, you will be talking about living in the secular world and there you will have politics again.
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,312 posts, read 4,257,663 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
Unfortunately we human beings and our governments and religions do not keep politics out of religion, and some discussions of religions are empty of meaning without an acknowledgement of their political aspect. Within the lifetime of probably everyone reading this forum countries such as Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus have had particular religions so entwined with their government that you cannot discuss their predominate religion without discussing the role it plays in government.

And how would one discuss the government of Saudi Arabia without discussing its majority religion and the part it plays in government. How can the Tibetan government in exile be discussed without acknowledging the fact that the government of Tibet prior to the Communist takeover was a Vajrayana Buddhist religious government.

One may hate the taint of politics in religion, but when it is there it matters, just as the taint of religious corruption matters when it is shielded by political office holders and, thus, corrupts secular affairs.

The only "solution" might be to confine all discussions in the religious forums to matters of doctrine....(but even then) and leave morality out of it. Once you start considering religious morality, you will be talking about living in the secular world and there you will have politics again.
I have been on here every day for a long time and I have never felt the need to speak about politics. This forum would be over run by people who debate politics, there wouldn't be a point to even have a religion forum, wonder if all those hard core political forum members want me going into the politics forum speaking of religion with every post?
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:12 PM
 
11,685 posts, read 13,101,708 times
Reputation: 30982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I have been on here every day for a long time and I have never felt the need to speak about politics. This forum would be over run by people who debate politics, there wouldn't be a point to even have a religion forum, wonder if all those hard core political forum members want me going into the politics forum speaking of religion with every post?
When the affairs of a religion become entangled with the legal and political life of a nation only by doing an Alice in Wonderland caper can we avoid those facts.

Religion does not exist in a bubble apart from our daily life. This may seem regrettable, but it is real life. If it were otherwise, religion would be only an irrelevant fantasy.

Consider for a moment, would you have had a crucified Jesus without the encounter of religion with politics?
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