Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This seems to be a category that never gets mentioned on the R/S forums very often. Yet, I think they may represent the largest single group compared to others.
I think we may often think of them as "fundamentalists". In a way, maybe they are. But personally, I don't think fundamentalists are really the ones who are the most offensive to the non-religious. I think it's the highly dogmatic ones, which I'm not sure there is even a label for. But this is getting off track...
Anyway, I think there are a lot of moderate believers. They believe the traditional religious doctrines, but they aren't going around preaching it. They have more of a "live and let live" attitude. CS Lewis and Soren Kierkegaard might fall into this category.
What do you think? Why do we never mention them? Or if we do, what label do we give this very large group?
Drama is always more fun, don't you think? Rational people's beliefs are, as a rule, not as interesting to other rational people as are the beliefs of fanatics.
Drama is always more fun, don't you think? Rational people's beliefs are, as a rule, not as interesting to other rational people as are the beliefs of fanatics.
They may be more entertaining but I don't find them Interesting because, while you may me amazed at the crap people can get themselves to believe, you don't find out anything new or useful. I much prefer a tough apologist opponent who makes you dig around and learn.
Drama is always more fun, don't you think? Rational people's beliefs are, as a rule, not as interesting to other rational people as are the beliefs of fanatics.
So this forum is just for fun? It's not considered a serious forum?
Precisely. They knew religious persecution was bad.
Well, yes; Thomas Helwys, first to advocate that platform of religious liberty, died in prison for his beliefs. I don't assume they meant secular persecution by 'rationalists' was good, though, just that the state shouldn't interfere in the relationship between people an their God, which in their minds was the Christian God.
In the U.S., it meant the Federal govt. couldn't decide a national sect, but it didn't restrict the individual states from favoring theirs; that wouldn't have flown in a region where many people had fled to escape Royal persecution for their sects' beliefs. It also wasn't intended to be a opportunity for whiners and neurotics to snivel about crosses and Christmas displays or Ten Commandments and having them removed, which is itself a violation of the clause.
Quote:
So was evolution, Bayes theorem, the big Bang, usw. But they were not invented because of those religious beliefs.
Genesis approximates both the 'warm pond' theory of many evolution speculations as well as the 'big bang' theory, which makes the writers some very intuitive people, regardless if one is a 'believer' or not, though, at least to those of us who aren't married to some political agenda or fashion herd that demands we hate all Xians.
Quote:
But think of the benefits it should provide that Christianity can not.
I don't see Christianity as much of a hindrance to science, and in fact has aided it more than the alternatives have. Given the success of the sciences and research in countries with a history of Christianity being the dominant social force in education and culture compared to almost all other non-Christian versions, I would say science prospered like gangbusters in the West, while it never advanced at all, or stagnated elsewhere. China is a non-Christian example; they invented a lot of marvelous things, but having nothing but a focus on pleasing an Emperor or bureaucracy as a motivational drive, it pretty much went nowhere.
Quote:
Cults do not have different belief systems. You may need to learn what a cult is.
I do, but thanks for the concern.
Quote:
We are not reinventing the wheel. We are just making sure ours do not have corners.
Not very successfully, it turns out. The great culture wars to rid us all of the curse of da evul xians hasn't improved anything materially or socially for most people in the U.S., any more than Mao improved anything for Chinese peasants or Stalin for Russians and Slavs.
It also wasn't intended to be a opportunity for whiners and neurotics to snivel about crosses and Christmas displays or Ten Commandments and having them removed, which is itself a violation of the clause.
You are confusing freedom of religion with separation of church and state. But if you are happy with breaking your own laws as you are with ad hominems ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
Genesis approximates both the 'warm pond' theory of many evolution speculations as well as the 'big bang' theory, which makes the writers some very intuitive people, regardless if one is a 'believer' or not, though, at least to those of us who aren't married to some political agenda or fashion herd that demands we hate all Xians.
And now back to reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
I don't see Christianity as much of a hindrance to science, and in fact has aided it more than the alternatives have.
Nothing to do with what I said, but no, science progressed despite Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
Given the success of the sciences and research in countries with a history of Christianity being the dominant social force in education and culture compared to almost all other non-Christian versions, I would say science prospered like gangbusters in the West, while it never advanced at all, or stagnated elsewhere.
After over 1,000 years of stagnation in the west under Christianity. And again, science advanced regardless of Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
China is a non-Christian example; they invented a lot of marvelous things, but having nothing but a focus on pleasing an Emperor or bureaucracy as a motivational drive, it pretty much went nowhere.
7 billion people demonstrate just how wrong you are. But many people are ignorant about the agricultural revolution, so you are not alone there. It was their export of agricultural science that actually led them to being overtaken as a power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
Not very successfully, it turns out.
I see no slaves. Religious bigotry is still a Christian problem, not a secular one. Usw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
The great culture wars to rid us all of the curse of da evul xians hasn't improved anything materially or socially for most people in the U.S., any more than Mao improved anything for Chinese peasants or Stalin for Russians and Slavs.
Do you often respond to arguments people have not made?
You are confusing freedom of religion with separation of church and state.
No, that would be 'secularists', who keep trying to sell the false premise that our separation clause means freedom from religion, nor religion being free from state control. Most cognitively dissonant types do.
Quote:
But if you are happy with breaking your own laws as you are with ad hominems ...
What ad homs? If you are a neurotic and have been sniveling and whining about Christmas displays in the U.S., I didn't see those posts.
Quote:
Nothing to do with what I said, but no, science progressed despite Christianity.
Mostly in a negative way outside of its cultural influence.
Quote:
After over 1,000 years of stagnation in the west under Christianity. And again, science advanced regardless of Christianity.
What 'stagnation' would that be? The Roman Empire was technologically stagnant, outside of warfare, like most of the other pagan cultures. It was the rise of Christianity in the West that revived research, engineering advances, not the other way around.
Quote:
7 billion people demonstrate just how wrong you are.
Nah. It makes you feel good to say so, though.
Quote:
But many people are ignorant about the agricultural revolution, so you are not alone there. It was their export of agricultural science that actually led them to being overtaken as a power.
BY who? I didn't know the Mongols were great farmers. They can't feed themselves now, after a few thousand years of existence as a culture.
Quote:
I see no slaves. Religious bigotry is still a Christian problem, not a secular one. Usw.
Rubbish. Most of those Chinese sweatshops have barbed wire around them, to keep their 'contractors' from escaping. Red China thrives on labor racketeering The 'religious bigotry' claim is ironic as well.
Quote:
Do you often respond to arguments people have not made?
It was a closing statement, commenting of the abject failure of faux' rationalism' to change much, and instead has resulted in mostly regression and atavism in the cultures that worship that cult. Your straw men in this thread indicate a reluctance to address that fact.
We can dismiss medical science, by the 'logic' used here in attempts to peddle fictions about Christians. All one has to do is cite few anecdotes about quacks and greedy HMOS and pretend their actions or representative of medical science.
This silly Xian bashing semantics nonsense is just the pseudo-intellectual equivalent of some 10 year old finding out Santa Claus doesn't exist, and can't wait to run and tell his 7 year old sister and then preen around with smug satisfaction over his sudden enlightenment, as if he is now inherently wise or something.
So this forum is just for fun? It's not considered a serious forum?
Oh, it's very serious for me. I think for a lot of people, though, it's pure entertainment. It's like an arcade game. See how many people you can shoot down.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's serious, old mate. But it's also a lot of fun, too. I luv it here.
