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Old 09-16-2018, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,997 posts, read 29,828,594 times
Reputation: 13095

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Along with a lot of equivocating about how it wasn't really that bad.
Of course it was "that bad." But people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Just sayin'

Last edited by Katzpur; 09-16-2018 at 11:24 PM..

 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:34 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,492,959 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
There are many Mormons today who are "fully Mormon" but do not have temple recommends. Baptism and confirmation is what makes a person "fully Mormon."

The "Mormon Heaven" you're referring to is comprised of three degrees of glory, of which the Celestial Kingdom is only one. Even when Blacks were banned from receiving their temple endowment, the church's doctrine was that they would someday be permitted to. At any rate, I don't believe for one minute that God would ever keep someone out of the temple because of a policy that was made which should have never been made.

I'm not lying. How have I lied?
I don't understand the bolded.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:37 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,491,742 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Right. President Hinckley never came out against racism. If too many members are still racist, it's not because that's what we're being taught.
The fact that anyone had to attempt to walk-back the racist DOCTRINE is what you can not defend.


And be honest, the Mormon church in 2018 is ALSO racist. All one has to do is look at the way the non-white Mormons are generally "othered" to know that many Mormons still believe that their white skin is "superior". In areas with large non-white Mormons, those populations are funneled into their own ethnic wards so that they are readily mixing with the white Mormon population. And they are discouraged from "mixing" in general.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,997 posts, read 29,828,594 times
Reputation: 13095
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Thank you for being honest about this issue. One of my best friends is Mormon and he has talked about this issue (and many others) regarding race.

He admitted that they separate the wards by ethnic group standard (white)/Pacific Islander/Hispanic
They don't separate wards by ethnic group standard. In areas where there are a large number of people who don't speak English, but do speak a common language such as the Tongan language, a ward is created so that these people can worship where they can understand what is being taught in their native tongue. Those who understand English and want to attend the English-speaking ward in which they reside are more than welcome to do so.

Tell me what I said that was a lie. If there is any topic in Mormonism that I have strong feelings about, it's this one, and I never said one single solitary word that is not true. I do not believe there was ever any kind of a revelation from God instructing Brigham Young or anyone else to discriminate against Black people the way he did and the way the Church as a whole did up until 1978. I believe the ban was racially motivated. What more do you want me to say?

Last edited by Katzpur; 09-16-2018 at 11:25 PM..
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:40 PM
 
10,567 posts, read 5,581,634 times
Reputation: 10657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I speak my mind all the time, and I have been very outspoken on a number of church policies I disagree with. I can tell you unequivocally that I do not feel that I am in any danger whatsoever of being excommunicated. You may wish to read my post #214, in which this same criticism is addressed.
That you don’t fear it happening to you in way changes the fact that vocal critics of the church have been disfellowshipped and excommunicated.

Quote:
Only Mormons who have a temple recommend may attend weddings held in an LDS temple. The Church does, however, recognize weddings held outside of the temple as being legally binding. LDS couples may be married by a justice of the peace in the judge's chambers, in an LDS church/meetinghouse (which is not the same thing as a temple) on a beach at sunset or in somebody's backyard, and non-members of the Church are welcome to attend. I actually attended a wedding several years ago that was held in the "cultural hall" of the LDS church meetinghouse where I worship every Sunday. It was officiated by our LDS bishop. He performed the wedding between a young LDS woman and her Buddhist husband who was from Thailand. Both families were present, along with many of the couple's friends. If both the man and the woman are LDS, they are encouraged to go to the temple to be "sealed for time and for all eternity" as soon as they are able to after the actual wedding.
Does the church no longer make them wait a year to get sealed?
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:41 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,491,742 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That's right. He did, and Mormons are essentially universalists in their beliefs concerning the afterlife. I even believe you're going to go to Heaven. I bet you don't believe I am.

I don't care if YOU believe that I am going to heaven. And I am not in a position to judge whether or not you will go to (the real) heaven. Only God can judge.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,997 posts, read 29,828,594 times
Reputation: 13095
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
The fact that anyone had to attempt to walk-back the racist DOCTRINE is what you can not defend.
Talk about clueless! I'm not defending the Church's prior racism. I'm simply saying that these beliefs are no longer being taught and haven't been taught for over 40 years.

Quote:
And be honest, the Mormon church in 2018 is ALSO racist. All one has to do is look at the way the non-white Mormons are generally "othered" to know that many Mormons still believe that their white skin is "superior". In areas with large non-white Mormons, those populations are funneled into their own ethnic wards so that they are readily mixing with the white Mormon population. And they are discouraged from "mixing" in general.
I am being honest. The Church today is not racist and Mormons are no more racist than the general population. You simply don't know what the hell you're talking about.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:44 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,492,959 times
Reputation: 19722
I love this thread.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:46 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,491,742 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
They don't separate wards by ethnic group standard. In areas where there are a large number of people who don't speak English, but do speak a common language such as the Tongan language, a ward is created so that these people can worship where they can understand what is being taught in their native tongue. Those who understand English and want to are attend the English-speaking ward in which they reside are more than welcome to do so.

Tell me what I said that was a lie. If there is any topic in Mormonism that I have strong feelings about, it's this one, and I never said one single solitary word that is not true. I do not believe there was ever any kind of a revelation from God instructing Brigham Young or anyone else to discriminate against Black people the way he did and the way the Church as a whole did up until 1978. I believe the ban was racially motivated. What more do you want me to say?
This is NOT true. Hispanic and Pacific Islander Mormons (who can speak and understand English perfectly btw) are "encouraged" to attend their ethnic specific wards and ward activities. For example, they do not mix the ethnic wards in with the Singles Ward (marriage market) dances/mixers. The ethnic wards are effectively segregated out.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,997 posts, read 29,828,594 times
Reputation: 13095
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
That you don’t fear it happening to you in way changes the fact that vocal critics of the church have been disfellowshipped and excommunicated.
You know which ones are getting ex-communicated. Personally, I don't like the idea of the Church excommunicating anyone for having a difference of opinion, but it is what it is, and if you're a woman who decides to march up to the Church Administration Building to demand the priesthood, you know what's going to happen. Thousands of Mormons today speak their mind about differences of opinion with the Church's leadership and nobody says a thing about it.

Quote:
Does the church no longer make them wait a year to get sealed?
Yes, they do (and I don't personally like that policy). I never implied otherwise. I said that members who are married outside of the temple are encouraged to be sealed as soon as they are able. "As soon as they are able" means one year after their marriage.
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