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Well, regardless of the method of the blood sacrifice, it's quite apparent that the Hebrews performed these horrific acts of murder on a somewhat regular basis.
The key is in the Abraham and Isaac story whereby Abraham is commanded to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice to God.
Perhaps THE most important thing to take away from that story is how Abraham simply agreed to murder his own son ... and he did so without question, without emotion, and without protest. Any father who loved his son would have begged and pleaded with God to "take me instead and let my boy live!" or something similar.
But if human blood sacrifices were not run-of-the-mill in Hebrew religious practices, why did Abraham take this command so casually, so matter-of-factly?
The almost flippant way in which Abraham agreed to sacrifice Isaac shows without doubt that human blood sacrifices were just a normal part of life; Abraham saw nothing at all unusal in God's command.
If human blood sacrifices were uncommon or unheard-of, then Abraham should have been wondering why, all of the sudden, Yahweh is acting out of character -- perhaps going as far as wondering if this wasn't a trick by Ol' Scratch.
Instead, he just picked up his knife, got his friends together, lied to Isaac to lure him to the sacrifical site, and off they went -- without a single question being raised. You don't just casually saunter off with your son to murder him unless you're a complete sociopath/psychopath OR your God frequently demands these sorts of sacrifices and Abraham was so desensitized to human blood sacrifices that it no longer bothered him.
Of course, the ultimate expression of human blood sacrifices is God needing to crucify Jesus in order to forgive humanity for all of our sins ... up to that point, I guess.
Naturally, most Christians like to believe that their Biblegod Yahweh is the literal wellspring of goodness, love, and morality when the Bible itself proves without question that nothing could be further from the truth.
Yahweh is a tribalistic wargod invented by the Hebrews to both justify aggressive warfare in the form of genocidal landgrabs in the region of Palestine, and to form a cultural identity and create unity among the tribe of Israel. BUT Yahweh was a savage and primitive god -- like all gods were in those days.
Modern Christians simply superimposed their desire for a good, just, fair, and loving god over the old, savage, primitive personna of Yahweh -- attempting to change God's character by introducing Jesus who does at least try to pass himself off as good.
The reason why I say "pass himself off" is because there is still the problem of the infamous "hellthreat" that Jesus bandies about in the New Testament -- which did not exist in the Old Testament. Now, suddenly, one can find himself being tortured forever if you don't immediately join the Christ cult, give all your possessions to the poor, and then learn to hate your family.
(And once the poor receives all of those possessions, they are no longer poor ... thus requiring THEM to give away all the stuff they just got to different poor people ... and then THEY have to give their stuff away, and on and on ... until one singular person somehow ends up owning ALL of the possessions with no one left to give them to. I guess that person can only hope a camel passes through the eye of a needle before Judgment Day ... or else!)
He wasn’t told to take Yitzchak up “as” a sacrifice but “for” a sacrifice, it was Avraham who misunderstood and this is why G-d, at that point, ceased talking directly to Avraham and began speaking to him through the medium of messengers...
And that new covenant is for the houses ofJudah and Israel, not Gentiles...
That is the facts of the written covenant that God takes his own law to put in the hearts of Ephraim and Judah. But who cares about what is actually written anymore?
hmmm ... that's even more interesting. So then you must not believe in the belief that there could be consequences of our bad actions, and there is no reward in trying to do what's good and beneficial to humanity. There is no hell and there is no heaven. All "Him" and all "Love".
According to standard Christian doctrine, there IS no reward in trying to do what's good and beneficial to humanity.
Unfortunately, many Christians in America have figured that out -- which is why we have some of the cruelest and most unsympathetic political policies in the Western world. In some cases, in the entire world.
What need is there to do anything whatsoever for the benefit of humanity when I can simply do whatever benefits ME ... regardless of how much it hurts others. And if needs be, a quick prayer of repentence will do the trick. "Please Jesus, forgive me for my sins." And then it's off to another day of sinning.
Christianity offers nothing to those seeking a sort of "cosmic" justice. Even Hitler and Stalin could sit comfortably at the right hand of God as long as they repent and come to Jesus at some point before they die, even on their very death beds.
And I think everyone knows that "Hell" is a barbaric concept made-up by primitives who used a universal fear -- fire -- as a threat to those who fall out of line.
The mere fact that Dante's version of Hell was used because fire has been rated by neurologists as the single most excrutiating type of pain people can experience. When Hell was introduced to Christianity, it happened in a world when everything was done with open flames -- heating, lighting, cooking, working, etc. No doubt burns were far more common then than they are now so everyone was well aware of just how much a burn hurts!
Fire was the perfect universal threat -- because everyone harbored some degree of fear regarding fire and the very painful burns they cause. No doubt too that people realized that severe burns never truly heal and leave horrendous, disfiguring scar tissue behind. Other wounds heal up, close, and disappear, but not burns.
I mean, anyone who can see religion from outside of religion can plainly see from where these primitive Bronze Age nomads obtained their ideas.
The concept of Hell is like the proverbial bull in a china shop. The concept is so simplistic and lacks any of the finesse that would make Hell truly hellish. Simply burning forever, meh ... like, there's no psychology involved. It is purely physical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
If it's all one, then theoretically Hitler, Ted Bundy, Ariel Sharon, many rapists, child molesters, Pedophiles etc are part of "Him"?
Why yes ... yes they are part of 'him.'
And according to Christian beliefs, God created all of them ... and he did so KNOWING beforehand who they were and what they would do in their lives. Despite that, he put them here on this earth to work their evil. In fact, it can be easily argued that God protected Hitler throughout his regime, often "miraculously" surviving numerous assassination attempts by sheer dumb luck. The kind of "luck" that many Christians would normally ascribe as being a miracle.
Which is why I keep saying that there is no cosmic justice to be found anywhere within Christianity. And if Hitler, Bundy, Sharon ... Sharon? Huh? And yes, many rapists, child molesters, etc. repent before they die, they will be floating around Heaven strumming harps and serving God while billions of good and decent people will burn forever in a lake of fire because they never came around to pumping up God's ego with loads of praises, hymns, temples, prayers, and genuflections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And if that's part of "him" then sorry, it could be a "Him" for you, but not for me.
Well of course, right?
One of the biggest cons of Christianity is giving God credit for all the good things while blaming everything from the fall of Man, Satan, and El Nino for the bad things ... blame anything and anyone but God DESPITE God being the final endpoint for everything that exists. Right? RIGHT? I mean, unless you're going to admit that God literally lost control of his creation, his divine plan now in shambles, and now he's doing hasty damage control because he was too incompetent or too inept to do things right the first time.
It's either that ... or God is responsible for Hitler and Bundy, child molesters and serial killers just as much as he can be credited for saints and altruists, philanthropists and empaths.
He is either ALL of our "Him" or he is no one's "Him."
Of course I believe in the latter, but in your case, I'm just showing how you cannot slither out of acknowledging God's complicity in the evils of this world. It isn't JUST humanity, Satan, or El Nino ... or <<cut>>, gays, taking forced prayer-chanting out of schools, feminists, liberals, and failing to heap enough praise onto <<edit>>'s ego.
Last edited by mensaguy; 09-10-2018 at 10:34 AM..
Reason: Edits
He wasn’t told to take Yitzchak up “as” a sacrifice but “for” a sacrifice, it was Avraham who misunderstood and this is why G-d, at that point, ceased talking directly to Avraham and began speaking to him through the medium of messengers...
Oh, so you're saying that the Almighty God is incapable of speaking clearly enough to make his intentions known?
I see, gotchya.
And of course Almighty Omniscient God had NO IDEA that Abraham misconstrued God's meaning even as Abraham was leading Isaac up to the sacrificial place, had him on the altar (or whatever it was), and couldn't be bothered to STOP Abraham until he was *just about* to kill his son?
I mean, was God trying to imitate a James Bond flick where the bomb is *always* deactivated with just 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock?
Was God going for that ultimate suspense scene where everyone is certain that poor Isaac is doomed and, wow, at the last possible second, an angel shows up and tells Abraham, "No, no, you silly goose! God meant to bring Isaac up for a sacrifice ... like you two were going to perform a sacrifice TOGETHER, not for you to use Isaac as the sacrifice! Tsk tsk, humans. And to think you're the pinacle of God's creation!" *flies of chuckling and shaking his head*
Sorry, ol' Richard, but I'm just not sure if I believe that interpretation. And even if it's true, you can see the problems with that version of the story, as well.
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