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Converting Gentiles to Jewish beliefs in God is exactly what was intended for Judaism from the beginning; From Moses to Isaiah to Jeremiah the intent was first to consolidate and unify 'Jews' into a successful tribe, and then go out and become a catholic religion of all peoples, and being 'a light unto the world'. The Christians and their 'new covenant' took that step, and left the stagnant racist legalisms that dominated the Temples behind in the dust, never to be relevant again to their own theology. Christians are just as Jewish theologically as Orthodox Jews are, maybe more; their last gasp was the post-exile times, when many of them proclaimed Cyrus as their Messiah and pretty much abandoned dynamic Judaism for obsessing over their genealogies and entitlements and 'racial purity'. Christian theology is actually a return to the dynamic evangelicalism of Moses, and follows the Torah closely.
See Joachim Jeremia's excellent study of Jerusalem and Jewish society and culture, Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus for a well sourced and footnoted exegesis of the times. It will make a lot of 'obscure' issues clearer and less confusing for laymen; the obsession with 'racial purity' laws is especially enlightening, for those who don't get why many Jews were self-isolating and possessed of narcissistic superiority and legalism rather than working to fulfill the covenants, pretty much ignored by the ruling classes, and why so many of the 'unpure Jews' found Christianity appealing and abandoned the empty and unjust 'orthodox' rubbish.
Converting Gentiles to Jewish beliefs in God is exactly what was intended for Judaism from the beginning; From Moses to Isaiah to Jeremiah the intent was first to consolidate and unify 'Jews' into a successful tribe, and then go out and become a catholic religion of all peoples, and being 'a light unto the world'. The Christians and their 'new covenant' took that step, and left the stagnant racist legalisms that dominated the Temples behind in the dust, never to be relevant again to their own theology. Christians are just as Jewish theologically as Orthodox Jews are, maybe more; their last gasp was the post-exile times, when many of them proclaimed Cyrus as their Messiah and pretty much abandoned dynamic Judaism for obsessing over their genealogies and entitlements and 'racial purity'. Christian theology is actually a return to the dynamic evangelicalism of Moses, and follows the Torah closely.
See Joachim Jeremia's excellent study of Jerusalem and Jewish society and culture, Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus for a well sourced and footnoted exegesis of the times. It will make a lot of 'obscure' issues clearer and less confusing for laymen; the obsession with 'racial purity' laws is especially enlightening, for those who don't get why many Jews were self-isolating and possessed of narcissistic superiority and legalism rather than working to fulfill the covenants, pretty much ignored by the ruling classes, and why so many of the 'unpure Jews' found Christianity appealing and abandoned the empty and unjust 'orthodox' rubbish.
From all I have heard, Rome did not recognise Christianity as a legal anything, though this was because they would not sacrifice to the Emperor. Paul may have aid that he was a Jew, but clearly, he regarded his 'Gospel' as an alternative to Judaism, not Judaism as the Jews saw it. The only connection was worship of the same god and lifting some doctrinal elements like Adam's sin. The same can be said of Islam.
No, Paul said Judaism was the thing, except for the circumcision and bacon part. Paul just followed a different sect of Judaism, of which there were quiet a few.
Most of what they know comes from old Protestant anti-Catholic propaganda and 'Enlightenment' nonsense, and websites where they find cherry picked and mis-represented rubbish in their quest for confirmation of their biases, hence their assorted and disconnected absurdities. It's clear they know nothing about the theology, the history of Christianity from A.D. 0 to the era of Constantine, anything about Constantine himself outside of false propaganda, nor anything of history after him, either, so don't get upset, they're just trolling anyway.
Most of what Christians know is also from cherry picked teachings, and propaganda from websites. The whole of Christianity is based on their quest for confirmation of their biases, hence their assorted and disconnected absurdities.
They know very little of the history of Christianity from the centuries before 0 BC, a key failure in understanding how a sect of Judaism evolved into the many different Christian sects that existed before the purge by the Trinitarians.
It is clear Christians are ignorant of the different theologies in the New Testament, and most of what we know about Constantine was written by a Christian who had no problems exaggerating for political and theological reasons.
Does that not make almost every Christian who posts on the internet a troll?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing
And you are correct; Christians at first met and attended Jewish services at temples; it was other Jews who drove them out, not the other way around.
According to Christian 'histories'. We have no actual evidence where they met.
Most of what Christians know is also from cherry picked teachings, and propaganda from websites. The whole of Christianity is based on their quest for confirmation of their biases, hence their assorted and disconnected absurdities.
They know very little of the history of Christianity from the centuries before 0 BC, a key failure in understanding how a sect of Judaism evolved into the many different Christian sects that existed before the purge by the Trinitarians.
It is clear Christians are ignorant of the different theologies in the New Testament, and most of what we know about Constantine was written by a Christian who had no problems exaggerating for political and theological reasons.
Does that not make almost every Christian who posts on the internet a troll?
According to Christian 'histories'. We have no actual evidence where they met.
Keep throwing out those standard falsehoods; maybe someday you might accidently stumble on something that is actually true.Moderator cut: Personal attack.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 09-21-2018 at 09:09 AM..
Reason: Accusations of trolling not permitted
LOL! I doubt it mate. Most people hadn't even heard of Christianity in Hadrian's day. Hadrian died in 138CE and at that time, Christianity was an obscure blood cult. Christianity didn't 'take off' until the 4th century CE.
AGAIN, Christianity was thousands of Jews already in Judaism and none of them left Judaism.
The problem being is that Gentiles of Rome started becoming Christians and naturally making pilgrimages to honor the Passover lamb that they believed in. This modern Christianity did not exist in Paul's day.
Christians were not pagans in Paul's day, they accepted the worship system of Jews and began doing things Jews did.
Keep throwing out those standard falsehoods; maybe someday you might accidently stumble on something that is actually true.
What falsehoods?
Most Christians do NOT know Justin Martyr said Jesus taught the twelve (note, not eleven) the Eucharist after (note, not before) he was resurrected.
Most do NOT know he said there were TWO gods, although to be fair he may have meant the holy spirit was a divine being distinct from the Jewish god.
Most Christians do NOT know Tertullian said the gospel of John ended at chapter 20 around 200 AD. which means chapter 21 was added over 100 years after it's alleged author allegedly died.
Most Christians do NOT know the earliest reference to the death of Paul says he was martyred in Spain.
Most Christians do NOT know the early Christians complained about how much Christian texts were changed.
Most Christians using an English Bible do NOT know that their version of the following is a mistranslation.
AGAIN, Christianity was thousands of Jews already in Judaism and none of them left Judaism.
Again, there were hardly any Christians in the 1st century CE. In the latter half of the first century and through most of the second, Christianity was an obscure blood cult made up of warring factions. It didn't start to gain ground until Constantine legalised it as a religion in 325CE. It really took off in 397CE when Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Again, there were hardly any Christians in the 1st century CE. In the latter half of the first century and through most of the second, Christianity was an obscure blood cult made up of warring factions. It didn't start to gain ground until Constantine legalised it as a religion in 325CE. It really took off in 397CE when Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Why don't you try and read the New Testament without false pre conceived ideas. The entire New Testament is happening with Jewish believers going to the temple, with Jewish believers submitting to the priests of Judaism. We see Paul circumcising people so that they may enter into the temple. Christianity was sold on the Passover lamb and all the feasts, we have our beginning at Pentecost.
Now you speak of Constantine making Christianity legal, WHAT DOES THE CHRISTIANITY OF CONSTANTINE HAVE TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANITY?
Constantine said himself that Gentiles should no longer keep the ways of Jews, you are talking about the invention of modern Christianity which happens to be a wholly different religion. Constantine outlawed all the ways of God. He created his own religion apart from the first Christianity.
The New Testament is simply showing converts to Judaism where the fathers of these converts were Jewish believers who never stopped walking in Judaism, there is overwhelming evidence of this.
Put things in perspective, Gentiles converted to the ways of the Messiah and then came the 7 year Jewish war, and what does war do other than to produce hate?
Rome was made up of people from all nations and Rome fought a 7 year war where all those Rome HATED JEWS FOR GOOD REASON, THEY JUST HAD A WAR. This is the reason Gentiles went back to paganism, what Gentile in his right mind would be brave enough to continue keeping the Passover after the Jewish war? Gentiles were no longer brave enough to continue Jewish Sabbaths and feasts because of the fact that they would be hated as Jews, NOT EVEN THAT, a Gentile keeping Jewish ways about a Jewish Messiah MUST HAVE BEEN HATED MUCH MORE THAN A JEW.
Rome hated Jews, but a Gentile wannbe Jew keeping Jewish ways? That would get your whole family killed.....
That is why Gentiles stopped converting to Judaism, and frankly, I don't know if I would have been brave enough to continue Jewish ways about a Jewish Messiah if I had been there. I am for sure that if I had no family, I would have died for Christ, but throw a family in there and you risk losing your whole family.
Most Christians do NOT know Justin Martyr said Jesus taught the twelve (note, not eleven) the Eucharist after (note, not before) he was resurrected.
Most do NOT know he said there were TWO gods, although to be fair he may have meant the holy spirit was a divine being distinct from the Jewish god.
Most Christians do NOT know Tertullian said the gospel of John ended at chapter 20 around 200 AD. which means chapter 21 was added over 100 years after it's alleged author allegedly died.
Most Christians do NOT know the earliest reference to the death of Paul says he was martyred in Spain.
Most Christians do NOT know the early Christians complained about how much Christian texts were changed.
Most Christians using an English Bible do NOT know that their version of the following is a mistranslation.
And none of the above is from 'biased atheist web sites', it is all taken from what the early Christians themselves said and wrote.
And I can do this all day. Because I myself have studied the history of the early Christian church.
And what do you have? Like I said, cherry picked teachings and propaganda from Christian web sites.
Irrelevant rubbish, as usual. You should at least post links to the sites you post this stuff from, and be honest.
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