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Old 09-20-2018, 05:55 AM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,004,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Christianity survives because it represents an ongoing Son (progressive) sitting at the right hand of the Father (conservative), always getting ready to take over. Sometime just around the corner. And this image will endure because it doesn't really have to end.
When you refer to religion, do you mean Christianity? You use the terms interchangeably.

I think of Christianity as one of many religions, so the term religion contains many others aside from Christianity. You often make them seem like a one to one equivalency.

I don’t particularly care if you do, just trying to clarify your meaning and 7nderstabd your posts more thoroughly.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Well, Harry, do the "mystery religions" named base their faith on the same Jewish revolutionary idea that is attributed to Jesus: Concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation extended to the whole world, not just your particular culture?

I realize that institutional Christianity in general has failed to live this out, but they always venerate the occasional ones who do (if they have not already murdered them).

That seems fairly new.
After our discussion of this the other day, I sent a message to my English half brother to get his view on this. His Christian upbringing was typically English (minimal), and without the Greek litany, so I was interested how he saw Christianity and a global love of mankind.

His 'take' (his word) on this was that it was a childish view that he held when he was a child, that to get to heaven, all anyone had to be was good. He argued this failed when you looked at what the gospels actually say, and agrees with me that this idea of agape for all is modern. He added it was a welcome idea, and I agree.

As you say, unfortunately institutional Christianity in general has failed in this.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,877,828 times
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"Modern?" What's the date for any redacts of the last few verses of Matthew 5?
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
"Modern?" What's the date for any redacts of the last few verses of Matthew 5?
As I said the other day, my belief is that passage is more political. As in a "be nice to the bad guys now because later they will get punished" way. There are too many passages in the gospels talking about unbelievers being punished for me to see this any other way.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,469 posts, read 24,054,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
I don't care, but you sound as if you don't understand a lot of things which to me seem very simple.
Unfortunately, little in life is as simple as christians like to portray it. Life isn't just good or evil, heaven or hell, god or the devil. Some of us can see that life is not made up of either/or propositions.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:46 PM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,815,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
When you refer to religion, do you mean Christianity? You use the terms interchangeably.

I think of Christianity as one of many religions, so the term religion contains many others aside from Christianity. You often make them seem like a one to one equivalency.

I don’t particularly care if you do, just trying to clarify your meaning and 7nderstabd your posts more thoroughly.
Christianity is the religion that I understand the most from my background. I respect all of the major religions however. So I guess that when I use them interchangeably it's from that perspective, because that is how I think of them.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:47 PM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,815,749 times
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Unfortunately, little in life is as simple as christians like to portray it. Life isn't just good or evil, heaven or hell, god or the devil. Some of us can see that life is not made up of either/or propositions.
Phetaroi, I think you are seeing Christ everywhere.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:20 PM
 
179 posts, read 80,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
The Romans seemed quite willing to extend the freedom to practice religion to many faiths other than that of the Roman tradition with very few exceptions. When Christianity became the state religion it embarked on the extermination of non-Christian religions and cults across the board.

And it has continued to wield the same axe of intolerance against non-Christians and amongst Christian denominations and sects themselves until rather recently.

Not a very progressive record, rather the contrary.

Actually Christians faced frequent and violent persecutions for centuries before Constantine came along, and suffered its worst under under the previous Emperor and the other three leaders of the Four Emperors, this at the behest of pagan priests jealous of the success of the Christians at gaining followers. Christians aren't required to be 1960's hippy pacifists, despite all the claims by the ignorant that they're supposed to let murderers kill them or something. Peter carried a sword and whacked the ear off of a government official, after all.



Constantine admired them for their successful social welfare programs; they took care of their own poor very well. One of the other leaders ordered his pagan priests to try the same programs, and they failed miserably, which angered them even more.



The 'persecutions' under Constantine were carried out by the state, not the churches, for one, and after Constantine's death they against suffered persecution. Most of Europe remained largely pagan right up to the 19th century in superstitious beliefs and practice, especially the peasantry, so the false notion of Christianity being some monolithic neo-Stalinist force is greatly exaggerated.


As for all the unfounded rubbish the theology was all stolen from Greeks and the like I'm not really interested in all the wildly incorrect and juvenile comparisons and terminological fallacies thrown about, since they've all been exploded many times. Freke and Gandy weren't very good scholars, and it's clear most the arguments are taken directly from their rather poor books, and without their cites being credited to them. Their rather bizarre claims re the Osiris mythology being similar is actually kind of hilarious, though. If you're into believing repeating the same old falsehoods over and over make them come true, like clicking ruby slippers will take you Kansas or something, then talk amongst yourselves and take joy in feeling part of the herd of post-modern fashionistas.

Last edited by OberonKing; 09-20-2018 at 05:31 PM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
Actually Christians faced frequent and violent persecutions for centuries before Constantine came along, ...
According to Christian 'history' which was often invented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
... and suffered its worst under under the previous Emperor and the other three leaders of the Four Emperors, this at the behest of pagan priests jealous of the success of the Christians at gaining followers.
And you started to get something correct before falling back on Christian propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
Peter carried a sword and whacked the ear off of a government official, after all.
According to one of the fictional gospels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
Constantine admired them for their successful social welfare programs; they took care of their own poor very well. One of the other leaders ordered his pagan priests to try the same programs, and they failed miserably, which angered them even more.
Yet once a heretic had 'sinned' twice, they were shunned, never to be forgiven. This meant they were not given any Christian social benefits. Yet the Greeks and Romans had social welfare programs before Christianity even began.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
The 'persecutions' under Constantine were carried out by the state, not the churches, for one, and after Constantine's death they against suffered persecution. Most of Europe remained largely pagan right up to the 19th century in superstitious beliefs and practice, especially the peasantry, so the false notion of Christianity being some monolithic neo-Stalinist force is greatly exaggerated.
Most of Europe was Christian by 1,000 AD, with the Baltic states taking a few centuries more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
As for all the unfounded rubbish the theology was all stolen from Greeks and the like I'm not really interested in all the wildly incorrect and juvenile comparisons and terminological fallacies thrown about, since they've all been exploded many times.
You mean waved away as if they have been refuted.

And no, the theology was definitely Jewish, but the influences were Greek. Which is why Jesus is sometimes regarded as a Cynic, a Greek philosophy. And where do you think the idea of the logos came from? You can also see how Jews such as Philo were heavily influenced by Greek philosophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
Freke and Gandy weren't very good scholars, and it's clear most the arguments are taken directly from their rather poor books, and without their cites being credited to them.
Maybe because no one is using them other than you, as an excuse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
Their rather bizarre claims re the Osiris mythology being similar is actually kind of hilarious, though.
Those baptized into the death and resurrection of the Egyptian god Osiris were saved in the afterlife. If you can not see the problem here, that is not our problem. Further, the death and resurrection of Romulus as a god was celebrated annually. The death and resurrection of Zalmoxis, a Thracian god, assured his followers of an eternal life. Syncretism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OberonKing View Post
If you're into believing repeating the same old falsehoods over and over make them come true, like clicking ruby slippers will take you Kansas or something, then talk amongst yourselves and take joy in feeling part of the herd of post-modern fashionistas.
No, we leave that to you Christians.
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