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No. You fail to see the point. Perhaps because religion makes you think in terms of a Law handed Down from Above, with Divine Authority, and Lots of Extra Capital Letters. Sex with minors is not just wrong because the age of consent is set at 16, but it is set at 16 because it is wrong.
It is wrong for particular reasons. In the circumstances you set out, I can't see where the harm is. I can't believe that a 14 year old doesn't understand the meaning of No and Yes. But I get that they may be too inexperienced to know what they're getting into. Or too open to coercion. Which is why the general consent -age makes sense.
"Sin" in the religious sense, doesn't come into it at all. It makes no sense. It is stupid and reprehensible. It doesn't exist. Human morality is all we got. And dropping the age of consent to 10 would cause such problems (if we cared) that it would have to be bumped up to twelve...then 14....and then 16...18, 21...at which case the problems caused by half the planet breaking the law would be so great that they'd have to knock it back to 15 plus a year to make sure. It is done not for moral reasons, but to make it a bit easier by not creating too many problems.
No offence taken, by the way. In fact I'm happy to explain. I have at times hinted that there is One Subject that is Taboo - even for rationalists: Child sexuality. It can't even be discussed. Simply saying the words sends EVERYONE into an emotional explosion.
As I tried to show above, discussion does not lead (as people apparently fear) to the abolition of consent and a free hand to predators and rapists. It leads - like any moral considerations when God -given Morality and the idea of "Sin" is dropped - to real concern about doing the right for everyone - including protecting the vulnerable from those who would take advantage of them.
Perhaps more than the religious would.
I agree on the morality part. Those sin preachers are human centric and say "as long it doesnt hurt anyone" . I worry about a chicken too.
Is there any religion that gives the liberty to stand against even God, to withhold their morality and values??
Wouldn't that mean that if you can't tell the difference between right and wrong any action you commit, no matter how reprehensible, is simply an accident and not sin? And if you are incapable of learning the difference that you are excused for continuing the behavior?
How can you justify that?
why I said "largely". As far as the individual is concerned you are right, but we usually have caretakers for such and it is their responsibility to contain such behavior.
I agree on the morality part. Those sin preachers are human centric and say "as long it doesnt hurt anyone" . I worry about a chicken too.
Is there any religion that gives the liberty to stand against even God, to withhold their morality and values??
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, but if you worry about chickens too aren't your sensibilities hurt when they are abused? Brutality in any form hurts anyone involved from any standpoint. It then becomes a question of how best to resolve the problem. Yes, my faith stands against all obvious abuses of power and prerogative claimed by followers of any "God."?
In my life, as a Christian, sin is the absence of obedience to the Holy Spirit , Jesus provided His believers.
Calling Jesus Lord, when clearly it is not so, is a lie, God will not be deceived . Matthew 7;21,22,23,
God has used animals to accomplish His will , this does not mean the animal is any thing more than an animal.
men have inadvertently accomplished God's will ,rendering a judgment promised the rebellious . It does not mean the wicked are justified accomplishing their deed .
The outcomes of one's behavior have some natural results . Hitting your thumb with a hammer will hurt and create damage that has future effects .
Killing brain cells with alcohol has future effects .
Guide lines for behavior God laid out have both good and bad results . But the guide lines are not an end but the beginning .
A man seeking scriptures for excuses, is not looking for God's approval BUT RELIGIOUS EXCUSES FOR MAKING EXCEPTION other men will except . This was the problem in Jesus day and today ,ignoring the Holy Spirit and preferring men's interpretations .
Who matters to you,
What men think,
what you think,
or what God thinks ?
Some are actually afraid of knowing what God thinks .
God's perspective is so superior to mine ,it would be foolish to think I might know better .
Men are so lost , their perspective is, at best, distorted by their own experiences/ education.
and even if what another man has to say is valid,
I believe that God prefer to be my teacher .
He knows my capacity to respond and my humanity to want to jump ahead .
As wise men say," timing is every thing" of all those that know God, know this too .
So even if the thing I might want to do noble or not is not in God's plan ,sin is not pursuing God's will in the matter.
Adams failure was choosing another source in place of God .
In my life, as a Christian, sin is the absence of obedience to the Holy Spirit , Jesus provided His believers.
Calling Jesus Lord, when clearly it is not so, is a lie, God will not be deceived . Matthew 7;21,22,23,
God has used animals to accomplish His will , this does not mean the animal is any thing more than an animal.
men have inadvertently accomplished God's will ,rendering a judgment promised the rebellious . It does not mean the wicked are justified accomplishing their deed .
The outcomes of one's behavior have some natural results . Hitting your thumb with a hammer will hurt and create damage that has future effects .
Killing brain cells with alcohol has future effects .
Guide lines for behavior God laid out have both good and bad results . But the guide lines are not an end but the beginning .
A man seeking scriptures for excuses, is not looking for God's approval BUT RELIGIOUS EXCUSES FOR MAKING EXCEPTION other men will except . This was the problem in Jesus day and today ,ignoring the Holy Spirit and preferring men's interpretations .
Who matters to you,
What men think,
what you think,
or what God thinks ?
Some are actually afraid of knowing what God thinks .
God's perspective is so superior to mine ,it would be foolish to think I might know better .
Men are so lost , their perspective is, at best, distorted by their own experiences/ education.
and even if what another man has to say is valid,
I believe that God prefer to be my teacher .
He knows my capacity to respond and my humanity to want to jump ahead .
As wise men say," timing is every thing" of all those that know God, know this too .
So even if the thing I might want to do noble or not is not in God's plan ,sin is not pursuing God's will in the matter. Adams failure was choosing another source in place of God .
imputing sin on adam as per usual i see.
Did you ever stop to think about the curses spoken of in Revelation and what the warning was?
Applying the same reverence to Berei****(genesis) is what i have attempted to do while leaning on the Lord in the spirit of knowledge and understanding..
And i dont recall anything ever said about adam's desire?
So whatcha tryin to say?
seemed like you just projected satan on adam from what i can tell. Which is quite familiar.
I agree on the morality part. Those sin preachers are human centric and say "as long it doesnt hurt anyone" . I worry about a chicken too.
Is there any religion that gives the liberty to stand against even God, to withhold their morality and values??
The only one that even comes close is Buddhism, but that has its Rules, and only gives you an Out if you don't agree. The Out is irreligion. Atheism, of course isn't a religion at all. It has to try to invent (and re -invent as necessary) a human morality, since there isn't a god -given morality (only instinct+ society+ reasoning) and none of them seem fit for purpose even if they were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
As do I.
Of course. We are all concerned about the well -being of chickens, even when it's just chickens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, but if you worry about chickens too aren't your sensibilities hurt when they are abused? Brutality in any form hurts anyone involved from any standpoint. It then becomes a question of how best to resolve the problem. Yes, my faith stands against all obvious abuses of power and prerogative claimed by followers of any "God."?
I can understand that. The argument ha always been on the facts rather than the behavior of the adherents. The problem comes where the attempts to resolve the problem are blocked by the religious authorities in order to avoid admitting that anything is wrong. Religion has had immunity from criticism and examination for too long.
In my life, as a Christian, sin is the absence of obedience to the Holy Spirit , Jesus provided His believers.
Calling Jesus Lord, when clearly it is not so, is a lie, God will not be deceived . Matthew 7;21,22,23,
God has used animals to accomplish His will , this does not mean the animal is any thing more than an animal.
men have inadvertently accomplished God's will ,rendering a judgment promised the rebellious . It does not mean the wicked are justified accomplishing their deed .
The outcomes of one's behavior have some natural results . Hitting your thumb with a hammer will hurt and create damage that has future effects .
Killing brain cells with alcohol has future effects .
Guide lines for behavior God laid out have both good and bad results . But the guide lines are not an end but the beginning .
A man seeking scriptures for excuses, is not looking for God's approval BUT RELIGIOUS EXCUSES FOR MAKING EXCEPTION other men will except . This was the problem in Jesus day and today ,ignoring the Holy Spirit and preferring men's interpretations .
Who matters to you,
What men think,
what you think,
or what God thinks ?
Some are actually afraid of knowing what God thinks .
God's perspective is so superior to mine ,it would be foolish to think I might know better .
Men are so lost , their perspective is, at best, distorted by their own experiences/ education.
and even if what another man has to say is valid,
I believe that God prefer to be my teacher .
He knows my capacity to respond and my humanity to want to jump ahead .
As wise men say," timing is every thing" of all those that know God, know this too .
So even if the thing I might want to do noble or not is not in God's plan ,sin is not pursuing God's will in the matter.
Adams failure was choosing another source in place of God .
But mark this:
There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited,
lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
To the woman He said, "I shall surely increase your sorrow and your pregnancy; in pain you shall bear children. And to your husband will be your desire, and he will rule over you." טזאֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֣ה אָמַ֗ר הַרְבָּ֤ה אַרְבֶּה֙ עִצְּבוֹנֵ֣ךְ וְהֵֽרֹנֵ֔ךְ בְּעֶ֖צֶב תֵּֽלְדִ֣י בָנִ֑ים וְאֶל־אִישֵׁךְ֙ תְּשׁ֣וּקָתֵ֔ךְ וְה֖וּא יִמְשָׁל־בָּֽךְ:
Now the serpent was cunning, more than all the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made, and it said to the woman, "Did God indeed say, 'You shall not eat of any of the trees of the garden?'"
[And with no animal(beast) shall you cohabit, to become defiled by it. And a woman shall not stand in front of an animal to cohabit with it; this is depravity.]
And the king will do as he wishes, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself over every powerful one, and about the God of the mighty he will speak evil[as in lying signs and wonders] things, and he will succeed until the fury is spent, when it will be finished and executed. לווְעָשָׂ֨ה כִרְצֹנ֜וֹ הַמֶּ֗לֶךְ וְיִתְרוֹמֵ֚ם וְיִתְגַּדֵּל֙ עַל־כָּל־אֵ֔ל וְעַל֙ אֵ֣ל אֵלִ֔ים יְדַבֵּ֖ר נִפְלָא֑וֹתוְהִצְלִ֙יחַ֙ עַד־כָּ֣לָה זַ֔עַם כִּֽי־נֶֽחֱרָצָ֖ה נֶֽעֱשָֽׂתָה:
And he will not contemplate the gods of his fathers, and the most desirable of women and any god he will not contemplate , for he will magnify himself over all. לזוְעַל־אֱלֹהֵ֚י אֲבֹתָיו֙ לֹ֣א יָבִ֔ין וְעַל־חֶמְדַּ֥ת נָשִׁ֛ים וְעַל־כָּל־אֱל֖וֹהַּ לֹ֣א יָבִ֑ין כִּ֥י עַל־כֹּ֖ל יִתְגַּדָּֽל:
And to your husband will be your desire
he (false prophet) will not contemplate the most desirable of women
But mark this:
There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited,
lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
To the woman He said, "I shall surely increase your sorrow and your pregnancy; in pain you shall bear children. And to your husband will be your desire, and he will rule over you." טזאֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֣ה אָמַ֗ר הַרְבָּ֤ה אַרְבֶּה֙ עִצְּבוֹנֵ֣ךְ וְהֵֽרֹנֵ֔ךְ בְּעֶ֖צֶב תֵּֽלְדִ֣י בָנִ֑ים וְאֶל־אִישֵׁךְ֙ תְּשׁ֣וּקָתֵ֔ךְ וְה֖וּא יִמְשָׁל־בָּֽךְ:
Now the serpent was cunning, more than all the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made, and it said to the woman, "Did God indeed say, 'You shall not eat of any of the trees of the garden?'"
[And with no animal(beast) shall you cohabit, to become defiled by it. And a woman shall not stand in front of an animal to cohabit with it; this is depravity.]
And the king will do as he wishes, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself over every powerful one, and about the God of the mighty he will speak evil[as in lying signs and wonders] things, and he will succeed until the fury is spent, when it will be finished and executed. לווְעָשָׂ֨ה כִרְצֹנ֜וֹ הַמֶּ֗לֶךְ וְיִתְרוֹמֵ֚ם וְיִתְגַּדֵּל֙ עַל־כָּל־אֵ֔ל וְעַל֙ אֵ֣ל אֵלִ֔ים יְדַבֵּ֖ר נִפְלָא֑וֹתוְהִצְלִ֙יחַ֙ עַד־כָּ֣לָה זַ֔עַם כִּֽי־נֶֽחֱרָצָ֖ה נֶֽעֱשָֽׂתָה:
And he will not contemplate the gods of his fathers, and the most desirable of women and any god he will not contemplate , for he will magnify himself over all. לזוְעַל־אֱלֹהֵ֚י אֲבֹתָיו֙ לֹ֣א יָבִ֔ין וְעַל־חֶמְדַּ֥ת נָשִׁ֛ים וְעַל־כָּל־אֱל֖וֹהַּ לֹ֣א יָבִ֑ין כִּ֥י עַל־כֹּ֖ל יִתְגַּדָּֽל:
And to your husband will be your desire
he (false prophet) will not contemplate the most desirable of women
The above link will provide substance to correlate with. Ole shaul being a pharisee was well versed in traditional works. Which is why Jannes and Jambres is mentioned. They are the serpent sorcerors of egypt(the worldly) https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_timothy/3-8.htm
In the Gospel of Mary the disciples ask the Christ "what is the sin in the world" the Christ responded, "there is no sin, only that in which you call sin, such as adultery. This is why good has come into the world, to set things back to their roots."
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