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Old 04-04-2008, 12:13 PM
 
62 posts, read 130,321 times
Reputation: 33

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
No.

You denied the validity of my claims. I backed them up.

I wouldn't say religion is bad. Fundamentalism is. You don't see Buddhists or Jains attacking people who don't follow their religion.
I wouldn't say that. You can google buddhist and war and you'll be surprised. No religion is without its dark times.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 1,956,765 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I'm not sure I really understand your post but I'm going to respond to what I think you mean. Even if Communism/Socialism endorses Atheism, it's not the Atheist doctrine that justifies the murder of millions. There simply ISN'T an Atheist doctrine. What you have to understand about Communism is that it doesn't leave room for religion or faith because the leaders end up becoming demi-Gods themselves. In effect, the worship of the leader becomes its' own religion. That's part of the whole thing.

A while back I posted about a documentary that Lisa Ling did in North Korea. If those people are not brainwashed to view Kim Jong Il (their "Great Leader") as anything less than a religious demi-god than I don't know what to think.

The same goes for Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc... Communism leaves no room for religion because the idealist mentality behind Communism is to basically abandon any semblance of identity in order to all work as one society instead of as individuals.

However, while it is entirely possible for people to murder in the name of their religion. I really don't think it's possible for an Atheist to murder someone in the name of "Atheism". There simply isn't a group or belonging. It's just how you classify someone who doesn't believe in God. They're just as capable of performing evil and horrible acts as any group of people, but I don't think they're committing them simply because of their non-belief. However, in a Communist country, the pre-requisite of lack of belief in order to make the idealist mindset work is what causes the problems, not the non-belief.
So basically what you are saying "Atheisim" cannot be blamed for any killings or muders because atheists don't form an organized group? Kinda sounds like a pretty big loop hole to me.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:25 PM
 
62 posts, read 130,321 times
Reputation: 33
All killing is done by man, and man alone! If I'm a Christian and I kill you, does it mean God told me to do it? The greatest misconception is that God caused The Crusades and is behind every killing that a "Christian" commits. If you understand what the Bible says, you couldn't possible come to that conclusion. It's solely man's doing! Church politics during the Crusades said if you don't believe in God you must die. Did God say this?? NOOOOPEEE! That was some crackpot man behind that thought. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:27 PM
Status: "Busy" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Mississippi
6,601 posts, read 8,757,402 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
So basically what you are saying "Atheisim" cannot be blamed for any killings or muders because atheists don't form an organized group? Kinda sounds like a pretty big loop hole to me.
No, I'm just saying that there's no sort of Atheist doctrine that justifies it. There's nothing to mis-interpret, nothing to feel divinely justified for doing so, no anything. It's just simply a non-belief.

The suicide bomber believes his interpretation of the Koran is correct.

The Zionist Jews believe they are justified.

Religious wars throughout history were fought under some sort of pretense of being divinely justified.

With Atheists, there's nothing to justify. Stalin and I are the same in one respect. We don't believe in God. However, that's it. There's no one particular philosophy, code, dichotomy, divine inspiration, etc... behind it. So, saying that someone is killing someone in the name of Atheism is sort of ridiculous. There is no name to attach it to.

We can go back to Russell's Teapot, Mike, and say that it'd be like Stalin mass murdering someone because he was an "a-teapotist" or "a-unicornist".
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,241 posts, read 4,846,370 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I'm not sure I really understand your post but I'm going to respond to what I think you mean. Even if Communism/Socialism endorses Atheism, it's not the Atheist doctrine that justifies the murder of millions. There simply ISN'T an Atheist doctrine. What you have to understand about Communism is that it doesn't leave room for religion or faith because the leaders end up becoming demi-Gods themselves. In effect, the worship of the leader becomes its' own religion. That's part of the whole thing.
I had some grammar issues on the last post. I'm not saying that we believe there is atheist doctrine that Stalin and Mao followed in order to execute millions. There is no religious doctrine that justifies what Hitler did either.
I'm simply saying this: if someone claims that Hitler did what he did in the name of god, then what is preventing the Christian from saying that atheism was an intimate part of the killings in Russian and China?
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:41 PM
Status: "Busy" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Mississippi
6,601 posts, read 8,757,402 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
I had some grammar issues on the last post. I'm not saying that we believe there is atheist doctrine that Stalin and Mao followed in order to execute millions. There is no religious doctrine that justifies what Hitler did either.
I'm simply saying this: if someone claims that Hitler did what he did in the name of god, then what is preventing the Christian from saying that atheism was an intimate part of the killings in Russian and China?
I don't think anyone implied that Hitler did what he did because he was a Christian. In fact, the OP stated that Hitler was an Atheist. Quite honestly, I feel like I'm bargaining for labels. "I'll have a Pol Pot, a Stalin, and a Mao, but I'm not taking Hitler". Somewhere along the lines it got implied that because Hitler was a believer in some sort of Creator that he did what he did because of it. I don't personally think that is true. In fact, I would consider Hitler to be what I call a 'Christian Agnostic.' Regardless, it doesn't make what he did a product of that belief.

The OP seemed directed towards the idea that men like Stalin, Mao, Pot, Hitler were atheists and therefore also tried to point out the ever-slanderous "Intellectuals?" at the end of the title to make the assumption that we aren't so smart because we associate ourselves with people like Stalin, Mao, and Pot.

It's much like me saying that you associate yourself with Osama Bin Laden because you're both religious. It's a non-sequitir.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,241 posts, read 4,846,370 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post

With Atheists, there's nothing to justify. Stalin and I are the same in one respect. We don't believe in God. However, that's it. There's no one particular philosophy, code, dichotomy, divine inspiration, etc... behind it. So, saying that someone is killing someone in the name of Atheism is sort of ridiculous. There is no name to attach it to.
The name of atheism is the belief that there is no god. Atheists then draw their own individual conclusions on what this implies. But, if the belief that there is no god justifies a particular violent political theory (not to say that atheism is necessarily at the root of Marxism, just hypothetical), then yes, I think someone can kill in the name of atheism.

BTW, Who's on first.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:49 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,264 posts, read 5,051,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
If we're talking about what atheists and religious people do, why does it matter what that atheists haven't done much harm to religious people specifically? Atheists have killed over 100 million people. So no, I'm not hard pressed to come up with examples of atheists killings.
You say atheists have killed over 100 million people. I think you'd have a hard time backing up your statement. Bear in mind that in all the communist-led purges and wars, people weren't killed for religious purposes, but for political purposes.

Quote:
This has to be the single most offensive post I've ever come across. Not only expressing your hatred for Christianity but celebrating the death of anyone in such a hideous way is sickening.
Show me anywhere that I expressed hatred for Christianity in my post.

Show me anywhere that I celebrated anyone's death.

you're a real piece of work, all right.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:51 PM
Status: "Busy" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Mississippi
6,601 posts, read 8,757,402 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
The name of atheism is the belief that there is no god. Atheists then draw their own individual conclusions on what this implies. But, if the belief that there is no god justifies a particular violent political theory (not to say that atheism is necessarily at the root of Marxism, just hypothetical), then yes, I think someone can kill in the name of atheism.

BTW, Who's on first.
I'd disagree and say that you have an atheist committing atrocities for justification of his political theory and not for his non-theist belief but now it sounds like we're really splitting hairs and playing a game of semantics.

Oh, and I thought you said Who was on second?
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,241 posts, read 4,846,370 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
You say atheists have killed over 100 million people. I think you'd have a hard time backing up your statement. Bear in mind that in all the communist-led purges and wars, people weren't killed for religious purposes, but for political purposes.
Have you been reading the posts? I didn't suggest that it was because of atheism that 100 million were killed--You said atheists, not atheism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
Show me anywhere that I expressed hatred for Christianity in my post.

Show me anywhere that I celebrated anyone's death.

you're a real piece of work, all right.
What does: atheism winning since 33 AD mean?
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