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Old 01-18-2019, 12:52 PM
 
305 posts, read 332,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
And this is the game Diesel is now playing, equating a poor child with limited abilities to that of a healthy person.

And awareness is just one aspect of consciousness. So if you look at consciousness as a whole, there will be different degrees for different aspects (sight, sound, awareness, self awareness, feelings, qualia, etc). I doubt there is a line, and the different aspects make the idea of levels of consciousness only a basic guide.
No games here. That is why I posted above the reasons why the levels of consciousness are not clear. But according to you they seem to be crystal clear.

 
Old 01-18-2019, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,429 posts, read 4,406,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
The cells my genetic material built may disagree.
Oh come on now.

I was strictly referring to any animal species or insect that is physically building something. I thought that was obvious. *shrug*
 
Old 01-18-2019, 02:22 PM
 
11,328 posts, read 4,408,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
No games here. That is why I posted above the reasons why the levels of consciousness are not clear. But according to you they seem to be crystal clear.
they really are not clear. Its that simple. But then again I don't have to defend a god or defend no god.
 
Old Yesterday, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,221 posts, read 576,921 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
No games here. That is why I posted above the reasons why the levels of consciousness are not clear. But according to you they seem to be crystal clear.
Not according to my second paragraph. Your need to misrepresent me again is amusing.
 
Old Yesterday, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,221 posts, read 576,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Oh come on now.

I was strictly referring to any animal species or insect that is physically building something. I thought that was obvious. *shrug*
My point was that we can build things without consciousness, so you can not simply state an animal is building something consciously. It may just as well be instinctive behavior, like hunger, or bird song in the spring. We have a natural tendency to assign purpose, whether it exists or not.
 
Old Yesterday, 07:46 AM
 
11,328 posts, read 4,408,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
My point was that we can build things without consciousness, so you can not simply state an animal is building something consciously. It may just as well be instinctive behavior, like hunger, or bird song in the spring. We have a natural tendency to assign purpose, whether it exists or not.
so you know that we are not in a "conscious" system? Understanding that there are levels of consciousness.

"instinctive" behavior is a running program harry. its an automated set of chemical reactions "doing life". so how big is the system doing life?
 
Old Yesterday, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,221 posts, read 576,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
they really are not clear. Its that simple.
Yes, as I said, it is a basic guide only. It is like an IQ, the actual score is quiet specific, but intelligence can not really be measured so accurately. But that is no reason to pretend a village idiot is as intelligent as an Einstein.
 
Old Yesterday, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,221 posts, read 576,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
so you know that we are not in a "conscious" system? Understanding that there are levels of consciousness.

"instinctive" behavior is a running program harry. its an automated set of chemical reactions "doing life". so how big is the system doing life?
And there is the composition fallacy again.
 
Old Yesterday, 02:09 PM
 
11,328 posts, read 4,408,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
And there is the composition fallacy again.
no, you make up fallacies to suite your anti-religion. You do it all the time.
 
Old Today, 02:32 AM
 
3,589 posts, read 2,589,989 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
You asked for my definition and I gave it to you. Not sure why you keep claiming no evidence from my statements when I have never claimed any evidence. I have stated very clearly from the beginning that know one knows anything including you.
And that is a misleading statement to make. "no one knows anything" is simply not true. We know a lot of things. And everything we know points in one direction.

Our knowledge is not _complete_ for sure. But that is a _much_ different claim than "no one knows anything"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
I asked you which drug and you refuse to tell me. How is that me being dishonest? Then what did you say? This is the direct quote from you when I asked you that question. "I have explored the altering of consciousness in many ways large and small. Through meditation - drugs - sensory deprivations - and more" Are you afraid the police are going to come knock on your door because you list some drugs on a forum? LOL Ok so if you have taken everything I have mentioned which by the way is only 2 things which level did you get to? How long did the experience last? Can you at least answer that directly?
Ehhhh I just did tell you. You ignoring and answer - or not liking the answer - or wanting me to phrase the answer your way rather than mine - does not mean the answer was not there. So stop lying.

So you want to tell you who is being dishonest? Sure. Happy to. You. It is you. You named some drugs. I told you I have taken those drugs too. How has that _not_ answered your question exactly? Further you are demanding now further information about "levels" which you have not provided yourself either. So rather than acknowledge that I actually did answer the questions you are pretending I did not - you are deflecting and goal post moving by seeking further information you yourself have not offered either. Which again is not honest from you here. You do not get to ask more questions of me and seek further information while pretending I did not answer the questions asked thus far. Do _that_ and I am happy to move forward in the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
Jibberish Since you refuse to be specific in what you took to induce these experiences I don't know if you had similar experiences or not. Again, it is possible that it was just all in the mind, but no one can say definitively what is going on in that circumstance and you have no evidence.
And again we have _plently_ of evidence. You are just ignoring it. Or you are conflating "evidence" with "Conclusive proof" which is another thing entirely. The simple fact is we have _plenty_ of evidence linking consciousness and the brain. We have _zero_ evidence whatsoever showing the kinds of disconnects you experienced.

So whatever your experience felt like - and as I said I have had experiences you have described too from feeling like leaving ones body to feeling like leaving our reality in some way (you use "dimension" to describe this) you have not yet described an experience that does not match ones I have had - but whatever your experiences _felt_ like the fact is we _do_ have evidence suggesting that is all it was, a feeling, and we have no evidence _at all_ suggesting it was anything else.

So the one with no evidence here is you. Only you.
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