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Old 11-09-2018, 05:12 AM
 
99 posts, read 23,982 times
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O Nov 13th A&E has a special on Jehovah's Witnesses. The child abuse two witness rule if causing a lot of court cases that are being won across the world.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzdeGe5Im90
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:13 AM
 
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Thanks for that. Cue the protests "Why are you attacking religion?"

It's because at bottom we think it is untrue, and people ought to believe true things rather than false.

It is because we believe that holding false beliefs is bad for society.

and we now have evidence that immoral not to say criminal practices are being covered up by religions. Not to say they are all doing it, but by protesting when others seek to expose it, they are really part of the cover -up process to protect the privilege of religion - at any cost to others.

They ought - like atheists do - accept and try to rectify problems - like over -aggression in methods, looking too much like a White man's private clubs - accept the criticism and call for improvements. We are even grateful for them pointing up what hadn't even occurred to us, so we can put it right.

This Cleaning House should be embraced by the laity as a way of getting it right with society (never mind getting Right With God) before it gets worse. But I suspect that they feel that the carapace about the jelloid interior of religion is so eggshell - thin that they can't risk cracking it.
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:09 AM
 
99 posts, read 23,982 times
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The issue as regards JWs is they have a rule, its called the two witness rule. As a JW you can not go to outside I.E police authorities with a crime if its committed by a fellow brother or sister. You have to take it to the elders. Then any crime or sin as they put it must be witnessed by two or more witnesses for them to take action. Since most pedophiles do not molest in public squares there is never two witnesses. Then you are not allowed to take any more action. You have to treat the accused pedophile as a fellow brother or sister in good standing. This is where the courts come in. Protecting child abusers is against the law. I believe they lost a case in Montana recently for 32 million dollars. This is not attacking its a fact as to what is going on. You have to not read the news to see it. Attacking is saying the Jews killed Jesus or some such goop. The Catholic church has been hit with this since search light did its report of the church hiding the issue. They have made some changes to stop the problem.

I watched a video on this issue from the official JW.org site. They said it was not true and was lies spread by apostates and that they would Never change the two witness rule. [bold mine. ]
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
3,097 posts, read 798,716 times
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I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness for 18 years. I was disfellowshipped as an apostate, due to my talking to my girl friend about why JW's were so down on rock music, which I loved, and still love to this day. Her little brother was in the next room, out of site, but he overheard my conversation. On that basis, I was labeled an Apostate and kicked out. A few weeks later I was kicked out of my home and told not to come back.


Moderator cut: We don't call churches "cults."

Last edited by mensaguy; 11-09-2018 at 08:21 AM.. Reason: Removed reference to a cult.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:11 AM
 
99 posts, read 23,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willamette City View Post
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness for 18 years. I was disfellowshipped as an apostate, due to my talking to my girl friend about why JW's were so down on rock music, which I loved, and still love to this day. Her little brother was in the next room, out of site, but he overheard my conversation. On that basis, I was labeled an Apostate and kicked out. A few weeks later I was kicked out of my home and told not to come back.


Moderator cut: We don't call churches "cults."

I have heard many stories like yours. The elders actively tried from two kingdom halls to DF me. I would only talk to one at a time as the two witness rule applies to apostate also. They would come by with two elders or call me up and say I an elder so and so want to come by to talk to you. I would decline the offer as I knew what they were up to. Normally I would not care, but I had family that was in it would cause issues with to be DFed. I have since moved and no one in my area knows I was a JW so its not an issue to disassociate now that my family has passed on that it would cause issues with. Sorry to hear about your family, have you ever reconciled?

Last edited by mensaguy; 11-09-2018 at 08:22 AM.. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:12 AM
 
35,693 posts, read 9,489,128 times
Reputation: 4882
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMTWGA View Post
The issue as regards JWs is they have a rule, its called the two witness rule. As a JW you can not go to outside I.E police authorities with a crime if its committed by a fellow brother or sister. You have to take it to the elders. Then any crime or sin as they put it must be witnessed by two or more witnesses for them to take action. Since most pedophiles do not molest in public squares there is never two witnesses. Then you are not allowed to take any more action. You have to treat the accused pedophile as a fellow brother or sister in good standing. This is where the courts come in. Protecting child abusers is against the law. I believe they lost a case in Montana recently for 32 million dollars. This is not attacking its a fact as to what is going on. You have to not read the news to see it. Attacking is saying the Jews killed Jesus or some such goop. The Catholic church has been hit with this since search light did its report of the church hiding the issue. They have made some changes to stop the problem.

I watched a video on this issue from the official JW.org site. They said it was not true and was lies spread by apostates and that they would Never change the two witness rule. [bold mine. ]
I posted a video some time ago explaining the 'two witness' rule and how it was purpose - built to cover up the perpetrator and victimise the complainant.

And there is evidence coming out that for the catholic church it's 'business as usual' and the question is whether the house -cleaning has not been very effective or whether they Claimed there was a house -cleaning but there never was.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:32 AM
 
99 posts, read 23,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I posted a video some time ago explaining the 'two witness' rule and how it was purpose - built to cover up the perpetrator and victimise the complainant.

And there is evidence coming out that for the catholic church it's 'business as usual' and the question is whether the house -cleaning has not been very effective or whether they Claimed there was a house -cleaning but there never was.
Real or not the Catholic church has made some effort, the JWs refuse saying its in Jehovah's hands. I believe the lost of court cases in Australia and here in the US will eventually change their minds. Money makes the most suborn move eventually.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
3,097 posts, read 798,716 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willamette City View Post
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness for 18 years. I was disfellowshipped as an apostate, due to my talking to my girl friend about why JW's were so down on rock music, which I loved, and still love to this day. Her little brother was in the next room, out of site, but he overheard my conversation. On that basis, I was labeled an Apostate and kicked out. A few weeks later I was kicked out of my home and told not to come back.


Moderator cut: We don't call churches "cults."

That's fine. Their a "religion".
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:54 AM
 
99 posts, read 23,982 times
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Although I have many issues with the JWs all the wrong predictions I lived through ect. the word cult I have an issue with as it does not seem to have a defined meaning. I have seen definitions that say a small group of people living in the same house or community that is closed. There does not seem to be one definition and it as defined by some can apply to all religions. There needs to be a unified definition.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
3,097 posts, read 798,716 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMTWGA View Post
I have heard many stories like yours. The elders actively tried from two kingdom halls to DF me. I would only talk to one at a time as the two witness rule applies to apostate also. They would come by with two elders or call me up and say I an elder so and so want to come by to talk to you. I would decline the offer as I knew what they were up to. Normally I would not care, but I had family that was in it would cause issues with to be DFed. I have since moved and no one in my area knows I was a JW so its not an issue to disassociate now that my family has passed on that it would cause issues with. Sorry to hear about your family, have you ever reconciled?

My older brother Jerry defied the JW credo. He remained friendly to me until his death. Another brother Mike had nothing to do with me except when he was relocating from Tennessee to northern Washington and needed a place to stay. He stayed the night, and I never saw or heard from him again. I also have two sisters, one is kind of friendly while the other one wanted nothing to do with me except when I visited my dying father and they took the opportunity to preach at me for over 7 hours. This happened in 2008 and I haven't heard a word from them since. I've survived just fine, and I give all credit to my wonderful wife and her wonderful family.
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