U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:17 PM
Status: "A smidge querulous." (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,268 posts, read 12,549,746 times
Reputation: 11135

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldIMoveOrStayPut...? View Post
Would you have a Church and Clergy with Nicetism? If so, how would you stratify the Clergy...? In descending order of importance/influence...?

"His Royal Niceness" (Church Leader)

"Agreeable Archbishops"

"Friendly Friars"

"Pleasant Plebes" (duties similar to Altar Boys, have to clean the animal cages, etc.)
No organization or hierarchy. It would simply require more people to get in tune with their inner Canadian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:29 PM
 
35,687 posts, read 9,526,013 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
When we get down to spermatozoa from the chicken and the egg, I find it difficult to believe that a supernatural being made a tiny spermatozoa. I believe we haven't gone far back enough since asexual reproduction came before sexual reproduction.



Yes, when the chicken and the egg question is being asked. Parents usually want their children to be better off than they were.

I think it is a mistake to equate parents and children to a supernatural being creating life from dust. In that case, the supernatural being is greater since it has supernatural powers (that it unfortunately doesn't want to share).



I don't believe I have always existed, but I can see your point about religion. It is an interesting thought. I don't agree with religion because it seems to make human interactions even more complicated if the intention is to make people get along better.
Yes. Essentially the argument boils down to the flawed argument from complexity, (since the only other aspect, the pre -existence of the individual as an identity has nothing but Faith to support it, and makes no real sense - for the reasons that i came to the conclusion that the Buddhist claims for rebirth made no sense) because that things are complex and ordered at molecular level (never mind atomic level) does not imply intelligent creation. Not even complex design implies intelligent creation.

It is (as I told Eusebius, and a couple of others) "Failure of imagination". It's actually an informal logical fallacy, I beleive - Just because it makes no sense to those who do not comprehend something, that does not mean that they are justified in denying it.

However, that just leaves us at a Draw, so to speak. as is the case with Cosmic origins, Abiogenesis and Consciousness. One doesn't know so it could be a god or not.

Leaving aside 'Which God?' and the (general) materialist default and the logical mandate that a claim based on a 'don't know' does not merit credence, never mind Faith as a reliable truth, we have the indirect evidence for, or at least against.

If a God was knitting all these DNA codes together like an elderly Granny, why would it continue to churn out the DNA of mosquitoes, Inchneumon flies, cuckoos and dictators, serial killers and rapists when there are so many potential souls to be born.

It's the problem of Evil. Either God doesn't care or is unable to do anything about it, or doesn't actually exist. Either answer, it sound like 'Not God' has to be it.

I should really welcome a better Theist answer to this that 'It's all man's fault because a dude ate a bit of scrumped apple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:30 PM
Status: "Mae gwen a'r byd yn gwenu gyda chi" (set 8 days ago)
 
1,386 posts, read 1,841,510 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
No organization or hierarchy. It would simply require more people to get in tune with their inner Canadian.
I have to admit, the Canadians are a pleasant lot, but having all that fresh seafood available and not having to buy Balsam Fir air fresheners and scent (all you folks have to do is open your windows) helps alot here...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:32 PM
 
35,687 posts, read 9,526,013 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
LOL

You saying that doesn’t make it so.
No. The repeated evidence of what you do (or fail to do) makes it so, despite your denial. Am I going to have to do a 'Mystic' on you and ask everyone to note when you get debunked otherwise you'll simply deny it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:40 PM
 
35,687 posts, read 9,526,013 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I think our inclination to look toward the heavens was put there by our creator.
You are simply trying ( ) to argue round in circles

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Or maybe that yearning was put there by our creator.
several pages back. Via a suggestion that God could have done it (and maybe not)
#820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You’ve given me no reason NOT to believe in a creator.
and a number of other failed arguments (e.g a creator is always greater than the created) which just elicits another attempt at an atheist -stumper, you just say what you think - on no valid basis other than you think so. Circular argument. In fact not even as good as that. It is no more than a plonking faith -claim. With No evidence and even in spite of it.

As an argument this is rubbish. I don't say it dishonest (as some theist apologetic arguments are) but it is faith based on nothing valid but Faith. Note this one, folks, in case he tries to deny he's ever been debunked.

Last edited by mensaguy; 11-16-2018 at 08:36 AM.. Reason: fixed quotes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 05:47 PM
 
35,687 posts, read 9,526,013 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Are you trying to say that "these lowly people need religion to simplify things for them," then?
I suppose that is what Nationalism also does to them, it simplifies their understanding to their own detriment.
Not really. After all they don't need aircraft Gnomeism as an explanation as to why aircraft fly. The trust that science knows how to make sure it stays up (mostly - science doesn't claim to be infallible) is good enough even though hardly any of them understand aeronautics.

They don't Need religion to explain anything these days. Religion may provide some Too Simple answers, but I thon't think that's what religion is trying to do. It is rather evading science and popping God -claims into the remaining gaps in science. That's apart from the fundamentalists who teach their people to deny science (just where it conflicts with the Bible) and it doesn't matter it is also make ridiculously over -simplified, like 'The universe came from nothing' or 'We all came from apes".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 06:05 PM
 
11,291 posts, read 4,397,710 times
Reputation: 1239
there are levels of faith. We accept random number generators because we have "faith".

"blind faith" is the issue. There is no need to change how the universe works to support a belief. In fact, when we need to change, minimize, deny, and hide facts to maintain a statement of belief about god, yes or no, its not faith that needs to be changed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 06:16 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 2,376,078 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
there are levels of faith. We accept random number generators because we have "faith".

"blind faith" is the issue. There is no need to change how the universe works to support a belief. In fact, when we need to change, minimize, deny, and hide facts to maintain a statement of belief about god, yes or no, its not faith that needs to be changed.
How do you know whether or not a bridge is going to collapse as you cross it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 06:17 PM
 
2,408 posts, read 1,352,759 times
Reputation: 2573
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

I should really welcome a better Theist answer to this that 'It's all man's fault because a dude ate a bit of scrumped apple.
Well, that I can live with because it is never the woman's fault.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2018, 06:18 PM
 
2,408 posts, read 1,352,759 times
Reputation: 2573
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
The #1 purpose of most religions is one's holistic health and well-being. In order to worship God, you must worship yourself as well.
Sign me up!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top