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Old 11-14-2018, 02:57 PM
 
3,808 posts, read 1,384,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
What I'm getting from your post is that having faith makes sense to you. I understand it makes sense - of sorts - to all believers in a religion. Do you understand that if religions did not require faith, they would have a lot more adherents?
So what would you like to have instead?

Everyone would have been born a believer with no choice, and no ability to reason?
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:27 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,324 posts, read 4,445,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
But it makes sense that something even more fantastic than the universe, i.e, God, did come together all by himself?

In other words to you it makes no sense that A can just exist, but entirely makes sense that A+ can exist.

Ok.
Their God extra-fantastically always existed for eternity before he moved a metaphorical (or literal?) finger.

I happen to favor and feel good about A++.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,324 posts, read 4,445,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So what would you like to have instead?

Everyone would have been born a believer with no choice, and no ability to reason?
Is that not the end goal?
Starting at the Perfect, and always staying and maintaining everything perfect, seems perfect to me.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,149 posts, read 721,093 times
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It would make more sense that a creator would be observable and more interactive if it has a plan and expectations of us. “Freewill” could still be a factor, yet threats and a hell would not. Doesn’t make sense for a parent to give birth then leave a child to suffer with no guidance. It also makes no sense to allow his child to slaughter each other.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,041 posts, read 3,482,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
What makes sense to you may not make sense to someone else, and vice a versa.
This is how we are - 7 Billion of us.

For example, it may make perfect sense to you but it does not make sense to me to think that the entire universe and everything in it, came together all by itself.
But you believe a 'god' came together all by itself. Who created God?
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,041 posts, read 3,482,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Yet you accept that God came together all by Himself.

Gahh you beat me to it! Great minds and all that.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:49 PM
Status: "A smidge querulous." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,232 posts, read 12,532,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So what would you like to have instead?

Everyone would have been born a believer with no choice, and no ability to reason?
How about a religion that makes sense? Let's call it Nicetism. Nicetists consider empathy and compassion to be the highest of human qualities and strive to care for the less fortunate, even at some cost to themselves, both in time and money. Their "niceness" extends to animals and other living things* as well.

They believe that being nice brings its own rewards in this life and the next life, if there is one, will probably also be nice.

No judgmental god-thing. No hell-threat. No arcane rules and rituals. No need to accept on faith, that which cannot be known. Just caring for each other and the planet because to do otherwise makes no sense at all.




*Except, of course, fundies and mosquitoes.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:54 PM
 
3,808 posts, read 1,384,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
But it makes sense that something even more fantastic than the universe, i.e, God, did come together all by himself?

In other words to you it makes no sense that A can just exist, but entirely makes sense that A+ can exist.

Ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Yet you accept that God came together all by Himself.
That seems more of a misunderstanding on your behalf.

And it’s good to have a discussion to understand each other better by explaining what the belief is.

God that I believe in, BY DEFINITION has no beinging and no ending, and THAT’S what makes him God.

You guys keep thinking God as a “creation” and that’s where the problem is.

God creates everything and nothing has created God. And God did not create himself. You cannot create your own self when you don’t exist, that’s ridiculous.
And hence God has been always there - no beginning no end. THIS is what makes him God.

And no, there is no evidence of that - it’s a belief based on faith.

Whether someone takes it or not, is there own call, and I have no bearing over it.

If God is created by something else or if he has a beginning and/or an end then it’s NOT God in my faith.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:01 PM
 
2,968 posts, read 927,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
That seems more of a misunderstanding on your behalf.

And it’s good to have a discussion to understand each other better by explaining what the belief is.

God that I believe in, BY DEFINITION has no beinging and no ending, and THAT’S what makes him God.

You guys keep thinking God as a “creation” and that’s where the problem is.

God creates everything and nothing has created God. And God did not create himself. You cannot create your own self when you don’t exist, that’s ridiculous.
And hence God has been always there - no beginning no end. THIS is what makes him God.

And no, there is no evidence of that - it’s a belief based on faith.

Whether someone takes it or not, is there own call, and I have no bearing over it.

If God is created by something else or if he has a beginning and/or an end then it’s NOT God in my faith.

Has this god and nothing existed at the same time at some point in god time?
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:02 PM
 
982 posts, read 240,010 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
That seems more of a misunderstanding on your behalf.

And it’s good to have a discussion to understand each other better by explaining what the belief is.

God that I believe in, BY DEFINITION has no beinging and no ending, and THAT’S what makes him God.

You guys keep thinking God as a “creation” and that’s where the problem is.

God creates everything and nothing has created God. And God did not create himself. You cannot create your own self when you don’t exist, that’s ridiculous.
And hence God has been always there - no beginning no end. THIS is what makes him God.

And no, there is no evidence of that - it’s a belief based on faith.

Whether someone takes it or not, is there own call, and I have no bearing over it.

If God is created by something else or if he has a beginning and/or an end then it’s NOT God in my faith.
But existence equally can have no beginning and no-ending.
If time, as space time, is only there when the universe is there, then there is no "before". Before is a time concept.


Your reasoning was that the Universe couldn't just come into being without an a prior mover, a creator. Its a fake answer - not an answer at all. If time is only part of the universe (doesn't exist without the universe) then the Universe is "always". (Since always is a time concept).


Your reasoning for "it making sense" is flawed as we have tried to explain. You are better just sticking with faith, period.


That the universe (including time) requires a creator and that the creator doesn't require a creator is just willfully silly because it requires a given logic in one part and then suspension of the same requirement in the other.


You still can't get over the fundamental issue that you accept something spectacularly amazing can just exist (always) but something less spectacular can't just exist - it needs someone to make it. Its just daft.


Did you also know that in an event, things do just pop into and out of existence all the time - virtual particles.


Stick with faith.
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