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Old 11-14-2018, 06:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The creator of anything is always greater than the created.
Yes, if there's a Host of hosts; otherwise, it's just a host.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:32 PM
Status: "A smidge querulous." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,232 posts, read 12,532,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The creator of anything is always greater than the created.
I was so hoping this thread would avoid sophomoric banality.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
It exists in different or various states.

To Believe God has always existed you must believe you've always existed... and evidently, you have in some state or another because we can see you.
I don't believe God has ever existed. I believe it is possible that matter, or energy, or both have always existed in some form or other. I am not a scientist, but that makes sense to me.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
I don't believe God has ever existed. I believe it is possible that matter, or energy, or both have always existed in some form or other. I am not a scientist, but that makes sense to me.
When did you come into existence?

You were 1 of 100,000-1,000,000+ spermatozoa swimming/wanting to fertilize the egg/sun. Were all of those other spermatozoa different version of you?
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:03 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,535 posts, read 8,438,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Is an acorn greater than a tree? Is a river greater than an ocean? What you are doing is starting with a Faith -claim and looking around for anything that looks like it supports it. It seems to me that it doesn't. Try again.
An acorn comes from an oak tree which comes from an acorn and so on. Neither creates the other. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Try again.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
An acorn comes from an oak tree which comes from an acorn and so on. Neither creates the other. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Try again.
But the fact is that the Bible was using the parents to represent God. That is so clear throughout the stories of Genesis. Have you read the story of Jacob and Esau, and their parents trying to outwit each other? It's spelled out so clearly. Jesus even confirms it when he uses the word "father". You have to read between the lines, especially when those areas between the lines are so easy to read.

There is a greater God who created our parents, but you are not going to find any real information about the real creator in the Bible.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
But existence equally can have no beginning and no-ending.
If time, as space time, is only there when the universe is there, then there is no "before". Before is a time concept.


Your reasoning was that the Universe couldn't just come into being without an a prior mover, a creator. Its a fake answer - not an answer at all. If time is only part of the universe (doesn't exist without the universe) then the Universe is "always". (Since always is a time concept).


Your reasoning for "it making sense" is flawed as we have tried to explain. You are better just sticking with faith, period.


That the universe (including time) requires a creator and that the creator doesn't require a creator is just willfully silly because it requires a given logic in one part and then suspension of the same requirement in the other.


You still can't get over the fundamental issue that you accept something spectacularly amazing can just exist (always) but something less spectacular can't just exist - it needs someone to make it. Its just daft.


Did you also know that in an event, things do just pop into and out of existence all the time - virtual particles.


Stick with faith.
I have absolutely no problem in sticking with faith when it comes to who created it?

And in my understanding, you are sticking with faith as well when you say, ďIt was not GodĒ, because you donít have an evidence either.

We all are sticking with the faith in this matter - we donít really know and we donít have an evidence.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:34 AM
 
7,888 posts, read 4,677,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
When did you come into existence?

You were 1 of 100,000-1,000,000+ spermatozoa swimming/wanting to fertilize the egg/sun. Were all of those other spermatozoa different version of you?
I don't think so; I think if some other sperm had swum faster, I would be a different person. What do you think?
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:29 AM
 
35,687 posts, read 9,508,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
An acorn comes from an oak tree which comes from an acorn and so on. Neither creates the other. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Try again.
That depends whether the egg was a chicken egg or an almost -a -chicken -egg. Think it through again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I have absolutely no problem in sticking with faith when it comes to who created it?

And in my understanding, you are sticking with faith as well when you say, “It was not God”, because you don’t have an evidence either.

We all are sticking with the faith in this matter - we don’t really know and we don’t have an evidence.
But we do have evidence - positive and negative. We have evidence that life was an evolutionary progression from some simple forms to a myriad of complex ones. We also have negative evidence in that no creator other than natural processes is needed for any of them. That same applies to cosmic evolution. I don't deny that the origins of the Universe, Life and Everything are not known, but the evidence is not in favour of an Intelligent Creator and it is in favour of natural processes. Take Faith out of the equation and the logical position of "The god -claim really has nothing going for it" is inevitable.

It is false to claim that it's "Faith" on both sides. Your Understanding is flawed.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-15-2018 at 01:39 AM..
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:39 AM
 
3,478 posts, read 2,370,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
I don't think so; I think if some other sperm had swum faster, I would be a different person. What do you think?
I think if some other sperm had of swam faster, it would be a different person altogether...each sperm is coded differently.
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