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Old 01-13-2019, 11:08 AM
 
11,270 posts, read 4,391,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Do not assume that everyone thinks like you do.
I don't. you shouldn't either.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,815 posts, read 9,359,118 times
Reputation: 18965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I don't. you shouldn't either.
Since I disagree with much in your posts, obviously I don't.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:17 AM
 
11,270 posts, read 4,391,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Since I disagree with much in your posts, obviously I don't.
thats what the point of my post was phet. Glad you finally picked up on that.

and managed to avoid his point and avoid my point with this run away tactic.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:19 AM
 
11,270 posts, read 4,391,174 times
Reputation: 1237
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Yes, it does matter. When someone holds themselves out as some type of expert they should expect to be questioned. Yes, "we" can mean your average 'Joe', but that wasn't the context it appeared you were using.
In this particular instance it doesn't matter. and we are getting away from the point of my post.

the point was ....

1) Not one person has ever come back from and after life. what does that tell us?
2) when people do see "something" its usually wrapped up in the thing they know or have memories of. what does that suggest?


some say there is something but its not you. for example "memes". people are really just a set of proteins processing/expressing information. That information goes on. But its not you.

or, think of a tree. When a leaf is pulled off in the summer the tree goes on.

thats how we think.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:32 PM
 
38,018 posts, read 25,691,281 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Every word of your statement is derived from your imagination. Which is to say, formed in your mind and assumed, by you, to be true. Because you find the thoughts appealing. There is a very real difference between the things that can be imagined in a person's mind, and things that have physical reality, however.
This is actually a very deep issue that would take us very off topic, but it is certainly NOT deserving of "drive-by" assertion.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:54 PM
 
Location: USA
3,302 posts, read 1,143,475 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is actually a very deep issue that would take us very off topic, but it is certainly NOT deserving of "drive-by" assertion.
I can imagine the flying spaghetti monster. In fact here is an artist's rendition of the flying spaghetti monster.



I can also imagine a black hole. Here is an artist's rendition of a black hole.



There are no actual photos of the flying spaghetti monster or black holes however, because neither can be directly observed. Does that mean they are both imaginary? Not necessarily. The physical existence of black holes have much scientific evidence to substantiate them. Our own Milky Way galaxy, as an example, is spinning far to fast to be held together by the gravity of the visible stars in our galaxy. The galaxy should fly apart. But it doesn't. Some great unseen force of gravity is needed to explain this anomaly. The existence of black holes were originally postulated as a result of the theory of relativity. As it turns out, the existence of a supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy, and most other giant galaxies, serves to neatly explain why galaxies are rotating at observed speeds and do not fly apart. This is just one of the evidences that black holes physically exist.

The flying spaghetti monster on the other hand has been entirely conjured up from the imagination of individuals. There is NO evidence that the flying spaghetti monster physically exists. It is possible of course to assert that the flying spaghetti monster created the universe, and that the existence of the universe itself represents evidence that the flying spaghetti monster physically exists. But, yet again, this is still simply imagination at work, since there is no obvious connection between the existence of the universe, which has physical existence (which WE share), and the flying spaghetti monster, which has no apparent physical existence but which has been entirely conjured up from the imagination.

Conversely, the existence of the universe has no obvious connection to an invisible all powerful all knowing Being, fully omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, who can manipulate matter and alter the laws of physics at His whim, and who created everything which exists from a word. That has been entirely imagined to be true by individuals over the centuries who had no other means to explain physical existence.

We have grown up much over the course of our history. We can appreciate the imaginary make believe of our intellectual childhood without continuing to subscribe to it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:54 PM
 
12,735 posts, read 13,323,030 times
Reputation: 9050
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
A set of attributes or qualitative traits is not the same as a dictionary definition.
That is EXACTLY what a dictionary does. A dictionary tells what a word means. A dictionary lists the traits and attributes that define what a word means. Sometimes a single word has several different definitions. The dictionary differentiates between them by listing different traits attributes qualities.

Moderator cut: Personal attack against phetaroi's teaching credentials.

Last edited by mensaguy; Yesterday at 03:26 PM.. Reason: Leave phetaroi's teaching credentials out of the forums.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,815 posts, read 9,359,118 times
Reputation: 18965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
That is EXACTLY what a dictionary does. A dictionary tells what a word means. A dictionary lists the traits and attributes that define what a word means. Sometimes a single word has several different definitions. The dictionary differentiates between them by listing different traits attributes qualities.

Moderator cut: Quoted post edited.
No, not at all. That's just another shallow argument.

I could list my three biggest heroes using words defined in a dictionary. And it might mean nothing to you if your heroes have completely different traits and attributes.

One of my heroes is MLK. I could list dozens of reasons. Do you think a member of the KKK would look at the attributes and traits that I associate with MLK and say, "Gee, I guess he's my hero now, too". I don't think so. And that's why dictionary definitions are STERILE.

Last edited by mensaguy; Yesterday at 03:28 PM.. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:27 PM
 
6,670 posts, read 3,930,223 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, not at all. That's just another shallow argument.

I could list my three biggest heroes using words defined in a dictionary. And it might mean nothing to you if your heroes have completely different traits and attributes.

One of my heroes is MLK. I could list dozens of reasons. Do you think a member of the KKK would look at the attributes and traits that I associate with MLK and say, "Gee, I guess he's my hero now, too". I don't think so. And that's why dictionary definitions are STERILE.
It does not matter whether someone you consider a friend or hero is considered a friend or hero by others....once you perceive them as such, then they are that. You understand how that works, right?
Also...the entity "friend" and/or "hero" now objectively exists.
Regardless of if "it might mean nothing" to someone else.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:57 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,324 posts, read 4,447,101 times
Reputation: 1213
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
It does not matter whether someone you consider a friend or hero is considered a friend or hero by others....once you perceive them as such, then they are that. You understand how that works, right?
Also...the entity "friend" and/or "hero" now objectively exists.
Regardless of if "it might mean nothing" to someone else.
Have you ever been back-stabbed by a once-thought friend or been disillusioned by a hero?
You could not if they happened to be imaginary and malleable like the winds.

GldnRule, I could define the FSM into existence right now... or do you disagree? I could even define the FSM as "ALL" as you did for your panentheist God.

phetaroi merely stated that you can't simply DEFINE something INTO EXISTENCE like a magic incantation by calling it "necessary" or "existing" or "All".

Tzaphkiel, using a dictionary to merely define something INTO DISCUSSION was never what their argument was about. GldnRule seems to have written that they themselves believe that their God exists by (perhaps mere) definition, even if only to him and his chosen "God-experts", but in which case it still exists, especially given that they and their chosen "dictionary" experts defined God as ALL including you, me, satan, Harry Potter, The excrement you flushed down after the food you ate, etc. According to him, "once you perceive them as such, then they are that."

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 01-13-2019 at 10:11 PM..
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