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Old 11-20-2018, 12:24 PM
 
7,864 posts, read 3,485,222 times
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Remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?

Quote:

A scorpion asks a frog to carry it across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, they would both drown. Considering this, the frog agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog


From an animal kingdom perspective, the scorpion is only doing what it does according to its own kind. Some animals are agressive, some are passive. Some animals even attack their own children, some are nurturing. Some animals will fight and kill each other. Some animals work together in groups.

Yet there is one thing I see in common here. No one looks at those actions and says, wow those creatures sure are immoral. Atheists want me to believe that we are nothing more than another creation, born out of time and chance. We are just another link in evolution, another branch on the giant tree of evolution. And yet if we did any of those things, we would be see as evil, grossly immoral and cruel. So the atheist tries to convince me that I am an animal because we share so many similarities with other species and they point to things like how dogs express real human emotions. We are animals because animals are like us.

I recently watched a documentary about illegal gambling in the US. It took a look into the dark world of dog fighting. In one scene, the trainers take what appears to be a gentle dog wagging his tail and place him in front of his mother. So messed up. They use some tactics to agitate the dog and suddenly they turn on each other. Killing machines going after their own family. So much for being human like. Man's best friend can be manipulated and programmed into something entirely different. Because animals don't view actions in terms of morality like we do. They don't weigh consequences even though we do have some fairly intelligent species out there.

You can't have it both ways. If we are animals then we should be acting like animals. Behaving according to our preprogrammed nature and instinct, not conflicted in areas of morality.

Last edited by jeffbase40; 11-20-2018 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:29 PM
Status: "Schooling Fundie." (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,790 posts, read 12,295,197 times
Reputation: 10775
...sigh...
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,646 posts, read 7,115,778 times
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Well, jeffbase, SOME of us actually THINK about what we are doing.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,273 posts, read 3,586,100 times
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Man I did not miss this carp.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:35 PM
 
Location: USA
3,189 posts, read 1,096,481 times
Reputation: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog


From an animal kingdom perspective, the scorpion is only doing what it does according to its own kind. Some animals are agressive, some are passive. Some animals even attack their own children, some are nurturing. Some animals will fight and kill each other. Some animals work together in groups.

Yet there is one thing I see in common area. No one looks at those actions and says, wow those creatures sure are immoral. Atheists want me to believe that we are nothing more than another creation, born out of time and chance. We are just another link in evolution, another branch on the giant tree of evolution. And yet if we did any of those things, we would be see as evil, grossly immoral and cruel. So the atheist tries to convince me that I am an animal because we share so many similarities with other species and they point to things like how dogs express real human emotions. We are animals because animals are like us.

I recently watched a documentary about illegal gambling in the US. It took a look into the dark world of dog fighting. In one scene, the trainers take what appears to be a gentle freely dog wagging his tail and place him in front of his mother. So messed up. They use some tactics to agitate the dog and suddenly they turn on each other. Killing machines going after their own family. So much for being human like. Man's best friend can be manipulated and programmed into something entirely different. Because animals don't view actions in terms of morality like we do. They don't weigh consequences even though we do have some fairly intelligent species out there.

You can't have it both ways. If we are animals then we should be acting like animals. Behaving according to our preprogrammed nature and instinct, not conflicted in areas of morality.
Humans have discovered that living together in societies offers major advantages for long term survival. Living together necessarily requires the recognition that what one does not wish be done to them, they should not do to others. That is the basis for morality.

Many animals have learned that working together in mutual cooperation has long term survival advantages for the entire group.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Germany
2,794 posts, read 475,791 times
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We are acting like animals. Those nurturing animals you mentioned.
Of course, if you really wanted to know, you would ask this in the science section, where you would probably be given plenty of references to science papers regarding the evolution and psychology of morality.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:41 PM
 
3,240 posts, read 2,310,648 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog


From an animal kingdom perspective, the scorpion is only doing what it does according to its own kind. Some animals are agressive, some are passive. Some animals even attack their own children, some are nurturing. Some animals will fight and kill each other. Some animals work together in groups.

Yet there is one thing I see in common area. No one looks at those actions and says, wow those creatures sure are immoral. Atheists want me to believe that we are nothing more than another creation, born out of time and chance. We are just another link in evolution, another branch on the giant tree of evolution. And yet if we did any of those things, we would be see as evil, grossly immoral and cruel. So the atheist tries to convince me that I am an animal because we share so many similarities with other species and they point to things like how dogs express real human emotions. We are animals because animals are like us.

I recently watched a documentary about illegal gambling in the US. It took a look into the dark world of dog fighting. In one scene, the trainers take what appears to be a gentle freely dog wagging his tail and place him in front of his mother. So messed up. They use some tactics to agitate the dog and suddenly they turn on each other. Killing machines going after their own family. So much for being human like. Man's best friend can be manipulated and programmed into something entirely different. Because animals don't view actions in terms of morality like we do. They don't weigh consequences even though we do have some fairly intelligent species out there.

You can't have it both ways. If we are animals then we should be acting like animals. Behaving according to our preprogrammed nature and instinct, not conflicted in areas of morality.
Because morality is subjective.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:43 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,135 posts, read 4,368,423 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?

[...snip...]

You can't have it both ways. If we are animals then we should be acting like animals. Behaving according to our preprogrammed nature and instinct, not conflicted in areas of morality.
What a sad state that simpletons and conservatives have debased themselves into. Do you not know what legal penalties are meant for? I suppose with people like Trump in power, you do not WANT to know what legal penalties are meant for. It's all just a sports game to these thoughtless, emotional, bunch. They love being lied to if it agrees with their preconceptions. Although this is true of most people, at least the less conservative are more open to having been wrong and thus updating their ideas... although such often amounts to complacency to Sophist trickery and is not always a strength.

Do you know what a social species is? Do you know what shunning in a social species signifies? Sure, a social species isn't perfect for being social.

Dogs are not like cats, and not all dogs are the same. Humans are not like other animals, and humans are not all the same.

You can most certainly do the same as what happened in the show about illegal dog-fighting that you watched with certain individuals. And you can't do it with certain dogs. That is why we have legal penalties. So much for "human morality." Which is sadly most often just a post-facto rationalization of personal feelings and behaviors.

Our ability to weigh consequences through use of future-expecting imagination and so forth most assuredly does surpass that ability in other animals.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:00 PM
 
7,665 posts, read 4,562,048 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Remember the story of the scorpion and the frog?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog


From an animal kingdom perspective, the scorpion is only doing what it does according to its own kind. Some animals are agressive, some are passive. Some animals even attack their own children, some are nurturing. Some animals will fight and kill each other. Some animals work together in groups.

Yet there is one thing I see in common here. No one looks at those actions and says, wow those creatures sure are immoral. Atheists want me to believe that we are nothing more than another creation, born out of time and chance. We are just another link in evolution, another branch on the giant tree of evolution. And yet if we did any of those things, we would be see as evil, grossly immoral and cruel. So the atheist tries to convince me that I am an animal because we share so many similarities with other species and they point to things like how dogs express real human emotions. We are animals because animals are like us.

I recently watched a documentary about illegal gambling in the US. It took a look into the dark world of dog fighting. In one scene, the trainers take what appears to be a gentle dog wagging his tail and place him in front of his mother. So messed up. They use some tactics to agitate the dog and suddenly they turn on each other. Killing machines going after their own family. So much for being human like. Man's best friend can be manipulated and programmed into something entirely different. Because animals don't view actions in terms of morality like we do. They don't weigh consequences even though we do have some fairly intelligent species out there.

You can't have it both ways. If we are animals then we should be acting like animals. Behaving according to our preprogrammed nature and instinct, not conflicted in areas of morality.
Don't you have capacity for thought and reason beyond that which belongs to a dog? I do.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:04 PM
 
10,850 posts, read 4,249,630 times
Reputation: 1212
its a silly question. its wonderful to be at most complex animal to date and its an honor to be a rung in evolution for the next step.

A personal reason/need to be more doesn't make it so.
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