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So if we look at the reciprocal and say if the missionary was welcomed on the Island, would you have opened a new thread to announce that you are now a believer since it’s a “proof beyond doubt that Jesus is NOT imaginary”
See the bigotry in OP now?
Cardinals, we can look at as many reciprocals as you like and speculate for years on end about them but at the end of the day you and I know there are millions of "what if's" but only one truth.
And here is the truth:
*Jesus told Christians to go into all the world and preach in his name
*He promised that he would protect those who went into the world to preach in his name
*John Chau went into the world at Jesus' command to preach the gospel
*John Chau was slain mercilessly acting on Jesus' promise to him and Jesus was nowhere to be found to protect John Chau when danger approached him.
I have no idea how Christians manage to square this ugly inconvenient truth with their faith in Jesus. Somehow they're able to push it completely out of their mind and go on believing. It's like the "Huh? What just happened?" switch has been completely disengaged in their brains.
This is why I am confident no Christian will offer a coherent explanation for this incredible failure on Jesus' part. Because what can they say in defense of Jesus.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow whether the thread title is true if nobody shows up for church.
Oh, I have no doubt they will show up in droves, Mighty. They find a way to carry on, how I don't know. That's the power of faith. I only know that one day I woke up and couldn't deny the obvious any longer. I walked away from my faith and never looked back.
To be honest, when I first heard this story, I was furious.
I mean no offence to Chau's family in their time of grief. But ....
In some ways, it serves him right for messing with these other cultures.
I despise missionaries.
I remember to this day the horrible fights that would erupt back in India when part of a family would be enticed by Christianity while the other part wanted to remain traditional and devoutly Hindu. Entire towns could erupt in horrible shouting matches, shunning, kids getting kicked out of their homes, fist fights, and even the occasional murder.
These jackasses need to learn how to respect other cultures and STOP sauntering into these places with their smug superiority complexes - because that's what it is. They believe their religion is better than everyone else's and therefore everyone MUST submit to their belief system. Not even the most remote jungle tribe can be left to themselves to live as they please.
Oh no ... we'll find you no matter how deep in the rain forest you try to hide. And when we do, we're going to come with our Bibles and hellthreats and tear your way of life apart.
I just wish these morons understood just how destructive their missionary "work" actually is. This is especially true in places like Africa where tribal leaders will often mix their local religion with Christianity the moment the missionaries pack up their left-over Bibles and go home. This mix is usually highly toxic and causes all kinds of strife. Just look at Kinshasa where tens of thousands of young children below the age of 10 are wandering the streets homeless ... all because the pre-existing religion mixed with Christianity. Then you ended up with Christian pastors telling parents that if they suffer a setback in their lives, it's because their own children are casting witch spells on them. So, of course, whenever parents suffered any kind of misfortune, their children were booted out of the house.
That's what you get. These cultures are often thousands of years older than Christianity and they got by just fine on their own.
Now, for those missionaries whose primary goal is to provide medical care, non-religious education, housing, and other tangible, physical needs, I don't have a problem with them. But those who come with a lorry load of Bibles and start trying to convert people while simultaneously using the aid as proof that the Christian God is real ("Are you getting fed? Yes? Then see? Look what can be yours if only you give your heart to Jesus!") well, pike off is all I can say.
The guy had no business invading their tribal boundaries with the expressed goal of destroying their way of life. Wouldn't YOU defend YOUR home and country if some foreign invader landed on your shores bound and determined to attack all the beliefs and traditions you hold dear?
One spiritual law of God is Fear blocks the hand of God , where this missionary had fear he was going to die , and this will doom the best of missionaries ..... Look at the story of Jonah who feared His mission , and was thrown into the sea where a giant fish swallowed him , and then through him up , Fear is a blocker for faith , and the lack of faith will silence God hand
One spiritual law of God is Fear blocks the hand of God , where this missionary had fear he was going to die , and this will doom the best of missionaries ..... Look at the story of Jonah who feared His mission , and was thrown into the sea where a giant fish swallowed him , and then through him up , Fear is a blocker for faith , and the lack of faith will silence God hand
That's unfortunate. You would think of all people a Christian missionary would be aware of this footnote.
we will know if the thread title is true when people refuse to lend a helping hand or stand up to injustice when its 'dangerous". to think these "memes" are not true because a sick individual expressed the meme in sick manor is just silliness.
If christianity would get rid of the "go out and convert" part it would be a huge step forward. And people thinking jesus meant "literally save you", or not, is just, well, fundy-think.
there is a huge double standard tho. because its a fundy we don't care. but atheist americans going into other countries it insert their (mine) morals is ok.
the better truth is that people shouldn't be crossing borders unless invited and that people may be seriously hurt or killed when they do.
so lets compare claims to see the more valid stance. lmao, oh wait, we can't, that's bad for the militant version of atheism and fundy think theism war.
A couple of observations.
Many newer translations don't even include those verses in Mark 16 because they don't appear in the oldest manuscripts. When they are in modern Bibles, there is a footnote.
Jesus prophesied persecution and there are also examples of martyrdom in the Bible. There is also something said about shaking the dust off your feet if people aren't receptive.
To use the Bible as the only guide without any historical explanation outside of itself leads to a lot of confusion and distortion of the Christian faith.
I don't know the full intentions of the missionary or his story.
However, the assumptions of this thread are a reminder to me of why i find Eastern Orthodox Christianity is so compelling. From what I understand and have been able to gather from obsessively listening to things like Ancient Faith Radio and various podcasts, their method of evangelism tends to incorporate local language and culture to a greater degree than what youn typically see in the West, especially with Protestantism... historically anyway.
To the Orthodox, the Truth of God can be found in anyone, anywhere to some degree because we are all part of creation and are given life by God so we can't be 100% untrue 100% of the time. Again from what I gather as an outside observer, Orhodoxy starts with those Truths that are found in local cultures and expands on that.
Treemoni's post at #16 also touches on the Orthodox way of simply living the life and let that be the message that is "preached" to others. If they want more information from there, let them "come and see".
I'm not Orthodox... yet, but if I were, I'd be doing a poor job of practicing what I preach about just living the life, even on forums, so bear with me.
Dead missionary John Chau did more to advance the "Jesus is Imaginary" cause than he will ever realize. His zeal for Jesus took him to a remote island in the Indian Ocean. His first words there were "I love you and Jesus loves you!" and
THUNK!
An arrow hits him and he dies.
So much for Jesus' promise to missionaries:
I guess Jesus forgot to cover things like arrows through the heart.
John, if you can hear me you should have thought of that before going to the island. Your own stupidity and blind faith in an imaginary Bible character killed you, not the arrows.
I disagree, treemoni. Mark 16:15-18 specifically commands Christians to go into all the world and preach the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus promises that all who preach the gospel will be protected from harm.
John Chau was only following Jesus' command, as are all Christian missionaries who get slaughtered when Jesus' promise to them fails. John Chau's only mistake was believing Jesus would protect him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Cardinals, we can look at as many reciprocals as you like and speculate for years on end about them but at the end of the day you and I know there are millions of "what if's" but only one truth.
And here is the truth:
*Jesus told Christians to go into all the world and preach in his name
*He promised that he would protect those who went into the world to preach in his name
*John Chau went into the world at Jesus' command to preach the gospel
*John Chau was slain mercilessly acting on Jesus' promise to him and Jesus was nowhere to be found to protect John Chau when danger approached him.
I have no idea how Christians manage to square this ugly inconvenient truth with their faith in Jesus. Somehow they're able to push it completely out of their mind and go on believing. It's like the "Huh? What just happened?" switch has been completely disengaged in their brains.
This is why I am confident no Christian will offer a coherent explanation for this incredible failure on Jesus' part. Because what can they say in defense of Jesus.
Jesus promised. Jesus failed to keep his promise.
That is the reality.
Scholars generally agree that Mark 16:9-20 is not original to the text. While it is true according to other text [Matthew 28:19] that Jesus did tell the eleven disciples [Matthew 28:16] to go and make disciples of all the nations, you cannot use Mark 16:18 with its statements about picking up serpents and drinking deadly poison to claim that Jesus promised that those who preach the gospel would be protected from harm. He made no such promise. Quite to the contrary, he said that his disciples would be killed because of him.
Matt. 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
John 16:2 "They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
So if you are going to go by the text, Jesus made no promise that his disciples would be protected from harm but that his disciples would (in many cases at least) be killed. Again, Mark 16:9-20 is recognized by most scholars to not be part of the original text which means that you are basing your argument on a false premise.
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