U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-11-2018, 02:36 AM
 
35,669 posts, read 9,384,564 times
Reputation: 4877

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Number 2 says morality doesnt exist
Number 3 says it does
Correct. 1) and 2) go together. God is supposed to be the origin of (Bible -based) morality. If there is no God - no (Bible based) morality. And it works the other way - if Bible -based morality is shown to be immoral - it means the supposedly moral god of the Bible cannot exist. But.

(3) human (relative) morality is always there.

 
Old 12-13-2018, 05:17 PM
 
94 posts, read 19,811 times
Reputation: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by petester View Post
If you're neighborhood wants you to blow yourself up for god then you do it.

That's "relative morality".
And if your society decides to ignore those parts of an ancient book that says slavery is fine and that adulterers should be stoned, that's relative morality, too.

You see, every last Christian who decides to ignore those parts of the Bible that they find abhorrent or inconvenient or just downright embarrassing is admitting, usually on a subconscious level, that human morality is in fact relative and ever-changing. When they do think about it, they contort themselves into logical knots in a vain attempt to square their notions with a Bible that obviously disagrees or is indifferent. Can you point out where freedom of speech is covered in the Bible? How about the right of people to choose their leaders through periodic elections? The equal protection of the laws? None of these concepts are biblical. All are human constructs.

Morality is a human institution. Humans sometimes don't get it right. Ignoring the former because you don't like the latter is no solution.
 
Old 12-14-2018, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,003 posts, read 9,787,588 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
There are 3 possible positions:

1) There exists a magical being called "God" that is the source of all morality and law.
2) There is no "God" therefore there is no morality or law and one is free to do anything one wants.
3) Morality and law are emergent properties that emerge whenever you have large numbers of people interacting with one another.
The answer is 3. We are social animals who live with other people about us all the time. We depend on other people all the time. Our ability to survive depends on us getting along with other people. And it has been this way over evolutionary time. Our early ancestors lived in social groups and they too counted on each other to survive. Cooperation was necessary or they wouldn’t survive.
 
Old Today, 12:00 AM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,427,974 times
Reputation: 310
1) The Theist position: There exists a magical and totally selfless being called 'god' that is the source of all morality (godliness) and proper laws are derived from this morality.
2) The Atheist position: There is no 'god' therefore there is no morality and therefore no proper laws and everyone is free to do whatever they want.
3) The Rationalist position: Civilization is an emergent property that arises whenever you have a large number of objective human beings interacting with one another. A civilized society is a society governed by proper laws. Proper laws do not give any one person or any one group of people any special rights.

Animals lack objectivity which explains why the law of the jungle is no law at all.
 
Old Today, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,003 posts, read 9,787,588 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
2) The Atheist position: There is no 'god' therefore there is no morality and therefore no proper laws and everyone is free to do whatever they want.
Another one that doesn't know what atheists think.
 
Old Today, 01:56 AM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,427,974 times
Reputation: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Another one that doesn't know what atheists think.
I believe you will find that it is you who are mistaken: Hyper-empirical
 
Old Today, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,003 posts, read 9,787,588 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
I believe you will find that it is you who are mistaken: Hyper-empirical
I think not! The atheist position is rarely if ever: There is no 'god' therefore there is no morality and therefore no proper laws and everyone is free to do whatever they want.

You could claim that some atheists may think that - but that is not 'the' atheist position.
 
Old Today, 05:05 AM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,427,974 times
Reputation: 310
Exactly what I said about Theism for many years. I finally had to admit that what other people were telling me was true. I finally had to admit that I'm just not a theist and never have been. I just don't want to be a member of the same group with all those nutcases.
 
Old Today, 05:53 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,498 posts, read 10,532,015 times
Reputation: 7038
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
1) The Theist position: There exists a magical and totally selfless being called 'god' that is the source of all morality (godliness) and proper laws are derived from this morality.
2) The Atheist position: There is no 'god' therefore there is no morality and therefore no proper laws and everyone is free to do whatever they want.
3) The Rationalist position: Civilization is an emergent property that arises whenever you have a large number of objective human beings interacting with one another. A civilized society is a society governed by proper laws. Proper laws do not give any one person or any one group of people any special rights.

Animals lack objectivity which explains why the law of the jungle is no law at all.
I don't know how many times you think you need to post this list, but it has already been posted more than enough.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top