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Old 12-14-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,632 posts, read 12,751,106 times
Reputation: 11316

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
So basically, what we have here is yet another dishonest religious person.
Uh-huh. What a surprise eh?
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:22 AM
 
194 posts, read 35,430 times
Reputation: 98
Perhaps wrongly, I had assumed the OP was an honest question, looking for an honest answer. Now that I have slogged through 5 pages, I sense it is not. But having devoted time to the slog, I will complete the exercise by giving my answer, as if someone was actually interested...

I come to this forum to learn, to understand what and why others believe (and do not believe), to refine my arguments about what and why I believe (and do not believe). I read more than I post, and I have learned a lot. I don't have many opportunities or avenues in the real world to explore these topics, in this way, so appreciate the opportunity I have here. I don't really care what sub-forum houses these discussions, but this one seems to be a good place to find them. As others have noted, atheists don't really have a common set of beliefs, save the one lack of belief... simply put, there isn't much to talk about, if there aren't others willing to engage! I have wandered over to the Christianity sub-forum, on occasion, and find it makes me very sad.... quoting scripture in an echo chamber doesn't constitute discussion or exploration.

And that's all I have to say about that (Forrest Gump).
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: USA
3,302 posts, read 1,169,600 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Religious forums? Seems like a waste of time and electrons. Why post on a forum of which is devoted to a subject of which holds no relevance to one. I don’t knit or fly airplanes. I don’t visit knitting or airplane forums. So why all the none-spiritual people on this forum? Uncertain about one’s belief system? Perhaps.

If I’ve asked this question before, forgive me. I am simply perplexed.
Why do Christians feel that they have a moral and ethical right to impose their superstitious make believe on the entire planet, to the extent of breaking the law and going where they clearly are not wanted?

SLATE
"In January 1956, five young American missionaries decided to make contact with a small tribe of natives in eastern Ecuador, with the purpose of converting them to Christianity. Instead, just a few days after their first direct contact with the group, they were speared to death on a secluded beach. News of the missionaries’ deaths spread quickly in the United States. Life magazine devoted a 10-page spread to the story of “five devout men who sought to bring the word of God to a fierce tribe of Stone Age savages.” The reverence for the missionaries went even deeper in Christian circles, where believers saw the men as martyrs killed for their faith."

"Last month, a 26-year-old Christian missionary named John Allen Chau was killed on a remote Indian island in strikingly similar circumstances as the men in Ecuador.* Chau dreamed of converting the members of an isolated tribe on the North Sentinel Island, who are known to aggressively resist contact from outsiders. He attempted to prepare to do so, but he didn’t speak the language. At one point, he wrote to his mother, he approached a group of North Sentinelese from the water and “hollered: ‘My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you.’ ” Chau was killed, apparently by bows and arrows, the next day on the beach."
https://slate.com/human-interest/201...el-island.html

As a non believer, if I were to go from church to church, walk up onstage without advance permission and declare that everyone there was an idiot who believed in childish nonsense, I would be arrested and Christians would have a right to be offended. And yet Christians consider it their right to do the very same thing to the entire world.

More specifically, when the Christian religious right decided to use their numbers to politically impose their religious view on the rest of American society, that created an imperative for non believers to expose the basis of Christian belief as nonsense through the simple expediency actually openly and thoroughly examining the various claims that Christians have been making these last 2,000 years. In truth that shouldn't prove to be a problem for Christians, and indeed should be welcomed by Christians. Only IF if their claims are able to stand the test of open examination, of course. The problem for Christians however has proven to be just the opposite. Under the light of open scrutiny however, Christian claims inevitably prove to be unrealistic, unbelievable, and ridiculous on a point by point basis. In other words Christian claims invariably fall apart like a cheap sweater upon a detailed examination of them. To their horror and confusion, Christians have been discovering that their claims cannot be effectively defended either logically or factually. The result has been to repeatedly refuse to debate and defend their insupportable beliefs, and then to lash out at non believers as the source of their bewilderment. If non believers weren't making such a credible case against Christian claims, there would BE no bewilderment. Indeed, if the case for Christianity was actually solid there would be no non believers.

How would you react to the phenomenon of millions of people who actually believe in Santa and the Easter bunny? If you found that you were unable to join into a belief concerning Santa or the Easter bunny, is that an indication that you are uncertain about your belief system? Would you simply keep quiet?

So ask yourself this question: If Christian claims are utter nonsense, would you prefer to know that? Or would you rather subscribe to nonsense simply because you find it personally comforting? What could be more comforting than a sweet old man who tries to make children happy?
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:19 AM
 
8,124 posts, read 3,623,085 times
Reputation: 1824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Religious forums? Seems like a waste of time and electrons. Why post on a forum of which is devoted to a subject of which holds no relevance to one. I don’t knit or fly airplanes. I don’t visit knitting or airplane forums. So why all the none-spiritual people on this forum? Uncertain about one’s belief system? Perhaps.

If I’ve asked this question before, forgive me. I am simply perplexed.
The truth is (which they will never admit) is that there is a deep down resentment and bitterness against God. Maybe something in their past life made them angry at God and they started feeding seeds of doubt. I don't think many atheists on these forums are just people who simply have a sincere disbelief due to lack of evidence which would be reversed as soon as strong evidence emerges. The fact that they almost exclusively go after Christianity is quite telling.

I believe atheists feel a sense of satisfaction at tearing down a Christian's argument or evidence. Or maybe there is a fear that they could be wrong so they have to rush and plug that hole immediately. When I watch a show like the Atheist Experience, I never get the impression that the atheist host sincerely wants to hear the Christian caller's argument and give it consideration. He wants to rip it to shreds for the amusement of his audience.

There are better things to do with your short time on this rock, ya know.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:29 AM
 
36,224 posts, read 9,779,984 times
Reputation: 4914
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
I'm here because I'd like to explore various religious texts/concepts without stepping on landmines.

My first landmine here was "Why do Catholics worship the Virgin Mary?" I actually didn't know it was an insult to ask such a question.

I don't attend for many reasons but one of the main reasons is because there too certain Biblical questions seemingly were off-limits.
While a forum in a sorta - atheist environment might enable people to ask wide ranging questions related to the religion debate, questions that offend are going to offend wherever you ask them But at least here, you are ringfenced from any possible religious retaliation.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:31 AM
 
36,224 posts, read 9,779,984 times
Reputation: 4914
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
The truth is (which they will never admit) is that there is a deep down resentment and bitterness against God. Maybe something in their past life made them angry at God and they started feeding seeds of doubt. I don't think many atheists on these forums are just people who simply have a sincere disbelief due to lack of evidence which would be reversed as soon as strong evidence emerges. The fact that they almost exclusively go after Christianity is quite telling.

I believe atheists feel a sense of satisfaction at tearing down a Christian's argument or evidence. Or maybe there is a fear that they could be wrong so they have to rush and plug that hole immediately. When I watch a show like the Atheist Experience, I never get the impression that the atheist host sincerely wants to hear the Christian caller's argument and give it consideration. He wants to rip it to shreds for the amusement of his audience.

There are better things to do with your short time on this rock, ya know.
Not only is this a total denial of everything that atheists say about themselves, I think it better reflects the way that Christians think.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:36 AM
 
Location: USA
3,302 posts, read 1,169,600 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
The truth is (which they will never admit) is that there is a deep down resentment and bitterness against God. Maybe something in their past life made them angry at God and they started feeding seeds of doubt. I don't think many atheists on these forums are just people who simply have a sincere disbelief due to lack of evidence which would be reversed as soon as strong evidence emerges. The fact that they almost exclusively go after Christianity is quite telling.

I believe atheists feel a sense of satisfaction at tearing down a Christian's argument or evidence. Or maybe there is a fear that they could be wrong so they have to rush and plug that hole immediately. When I watch a show like the Atheist Experience, I never get the impression that the atheist host sincerely wants to hear the Christian caller's argument and give it consideration. He wants to rip it to shreds for the amusement of his audience.

There are better things to do with your short time on this rock, ya know.
Do you find that you have a deep down resentment and bitterness towards Santa Claus? Are you angry at Santa? If the answer to this question is no, because being angry or resentful with an imaginary being would be pointless, then you have the actual explanation for the point of view of non believers right there in front of you. It's just not the explanation that is supported by your Christian mythology, that's all.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:40 AM
 
8,124 posts, read 3,623,085 times
Reputation: 1824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Why do Christians feel that they have a moral and ethical right to impose their superstitious make believe on the entire planet, to the extent of breaking the law and going where they clearly are not wanted?

SLATE
"In January 1956, five young American missionaries decided to make contact with a small tribe of natives in eastern Ecuador, with the purpose of converting them to Christianity. Instead, just a few days after their first direct contact with the group, they were speared to death on a secluded beach. News of the missionaries’ deaths spread quickly in the United States. Life magazine devoted a 10-page spread to the story of “five devout men who sought to bring the word of God to a fierce tribe of Stone Age savages.” The reverence for the missionaries went even deeper in Christian circles, where believers saw the men as martyrs killed for their faith."

"Last month, a 26-year-old Christian missionary named John Allen Chau was killed on a remote Indian island in strikingly similar circumstances as the men in Ecuador.* Chau dreamed of converting the members of an isolated tribe on the North Sentinel Island, who are known to aggressively resist contact from outsiders. He attempted to prepare to do so, but he didn’t speak the language. At one point, he wrote to his mother, he approached a group of North Sentinelese from the water and “hollered: ‘My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you.’ ” Chau was killed, apparently by bows and arrows, the next day on the beach."
https://slate.com/human-interest/201...el-island.html

As a non believer, if I were to go from church to church, walk up onstage without advance permission and declare that everyone there was an idiot who believed in childish nonsense, I would be arrested and Christians would have a right to be offended. And yet Christians consider it their right to do the very same thing to the entire world.
Many Christians don't agree with what John Allen Chau did. His heart was in the right place, but a missionary still has to respect the laws and culture. It would be a like missionaries sneaking into the Philippines without a passport or building a church building without city approval. God is ultimately in control and finds a way to make things happen.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:44 AM
 
8,020 posts, read 4,769,939 times
Reputation: 9257
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Not only is this a total denial of everything that atheists say about themselves, I think it better reflects the way that Christians think.
Yes, that "angry at God" comment is one I have heard IRL a number of times. It is interesting.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,632 posts, read 12,751,106 times
Reputation: 11316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
The truth is (which they will never admit) is that there is a deep down resentment and bitterness against God. Maybe something in their past life made them angry at God and they started feeding seeds of doubt. ...snip...
jeff, you can always be relied upon for lightening up the conversation with your jokes.
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