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Old 12-17-2018, 12:48 PM
Status: "Freedom-Diversity-Unity" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Better left unsaid
4,162 posts, read 1,634,492 times
Reputation: 5954

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No one's going to prove anything here on this website, or any other one. This question is entirely something to discover within one's self, in conjunction with God / the universe / spirituality / fill in the blank.

Nothing will be proven by a person/human.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:53 PM
 
Location: USA
3,279 posts, read 1,132,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
"So which is it to be? Knowledge based on impersonal empirical observation?
Or the ignorant bliss of make believe?'

This is your direct question, so....I would go with whatever gives you bliss...
cuz hard to beat ''bliss''!!

Do I want to follow 'knowledge", (aka logic, observable matter..also known as what you see
with your woefully limited senses and little pea brain?)
Or b-l-i-s-s!!!!!

Um, I go with Bliss...since nothing I see with my eyes open is real anyway.

(I still go with direct experience of bliss...seeing is believing...I don't go along with blind faith...
of something that is called Bliss, Nirvana, samadhi, satchitanand, Self-realization, union with God or Cosmic Consciousness ).
This is a convenient conclusion... so long as the infrastructure exists for you to run out and get a cheese burger (or whatever you prefer) anytime you get hungry. Take away the chain of increased knowledge that has led to the easy access to basics like food and medicine, and you are sick, cold and hungry and living in a cave. Increases in knowledge has led to long lives spent in fat and happy comfort and good health. That's as much bliss as one could reasonably expect to achieve. And it is going to take an ever increasing level of knowledge to keep up with the ever increasing rise in human population.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:00 PM
 
Location: USA
3,279 posts, read 1,132,166 times
Reputation: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
No one's going to prove anything here on this website, or any other one. This question is entirely something to discover within one's self, in conjunction with God / the universe / spirituality / fill in the blank.

Nothing will be proven by a person/human.
"Proof" is a very subjective concept because it is subject to arguments on just what should be considered proof of anything. The best we can hope to achieve on a website like this is to establish some level of likelihood.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:50 PM
Status: "Freedom-Diversity-Unity" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Better left unsaid
4,162 posts, read 1,634,492 times
Reputation: 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
"Proof" is a very subjective concept because it is subject to arguments on just what should be considered proof of anything. The best we can hope to achieve on a website like this is to establish some level of likelihood.
We all have different definitions of what constitutes "proof". That's why I tried to get across that each of us can only determine "proof" as it applies to ourselves. No amount of talk from others will reach the same level, depth, or conclusions. It's good to kick around our own personal ideas and theories, but we all have unique DNA, backgrounds, brains, and as some would add: souls. This is personal and unique to the very core.

In this thread, you are seeking a singular and common 'reality' that can never be. This isn't science, or a scientific law. It operates on an entirely different plane which doesn't subscribe to rules and set laws.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 12-17-2018 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:08 PM
 
159 posts, read 25,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
We all have different definitions of what constitutes "proof". That's why I tried to get across that each of us can only determine "proof" as it applies to ourselves. No amount of talk from others will reach the same level, depth, or conclusions. It's good to kick around our own personal ideas and theories, but we all have unique DNA, backgrounds, brains, and as some would add: souls. This is personal and unique to the very core.

In this thread, you are seeking a singular and common 'reality' that can never be. This isn't science, or a scientific law. It operates on an entirely different plane which doesn't subscribe to rules and set laws.
I don't see anyone expecting or asking for "proof." Most would be happy to see just a tiny smidgen of evidence. As Tired OTN just said, the best we might hope for is to establish some level of likelihood. If we can't even muster that much, then the level of likelihood remains at zero. This may be a different type of question, whether or not it "operates on an entirely different plane," but answers that each of us provide on our own are really not answers at all.

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Old 12-17-2018, 02:21 PM
Status: "Freedom-Diversity-Unity" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Better left unsaid
4,162 posts, read 1,634,492 times
Reputation: 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelaMonster View Post
I don't see anyone expecting or asking for "proof." Most would be happy to see just a tiny smidgen of evidence. As Tired OTN just said, the best we might hope for is to establish some level of likelihood. If we can't even muster that much, then the level of likelihood remains at zero.
I've experienced my share of "evidence" over decades. But it hasn't come from listening to others, reading others' ideas, or looking for proof the way a scientist or atheist would. It's been an abandonment of that feeble approach, clearing the board of all rules/theories/ideas, and then "listening in / tuning in" (for lack of better definition) to sense what's there. It's an entirely quiet and subtle means of sensing and picking up. If you've never tried it, you'll have no clue of what I'm talking about. The existence of God (and/or the spiritual realm) cannot be proven from one person to another. It can only be sensed and proven within oneself.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 12-17-2018 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:21 PM
 
Location: USA
3,279 posts, read 1,132,166 times
Reputation: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelaMonster View Post
I don't see anyone expecting or asking for "proof." Most would be happy to see just a tiny smidgen of evidence. As Tired OTN just said, the best we might hope for is to establish some level of likelihood. If we can't even muster that much, then the level of likelihood remains at zero. This may be a different type of question, whether or not it "operates on an entirely different plane," but answers that each of us provide on our own are really not answers at all.

Likelihood really SHOULD be closely associated with common experience though, it seems to me. Such as, the likelihood that the science behind the working of one's smartphone is valid, based on the fact that the smartphone worked as advertised the last time it was used. As opposed to, say, believing the claim that a corpse actually became reanimated and flew away. Because the Bible says so.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:49 PM
 
3,419 posts, read 2,178,427 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
I've experienced my share of "evidence" over decades. But it hasn't come from listening to others, reading others' ideas, or looking for proof the way a scientist or atheist would. It's been an abandonment of that feeble approach, clearing the board of all rules/theories/ideas, and then "listening in / tuning in" (for lack of better definition) to sense what's there. It's an entirely quiet and subtle means of sensing and picking up. If you've never tried it, you'll have no clue of what I'm talking about. The existence of God (and/or the spiritual realm) cannot be proven from one person to another. It can only be sensed and proven within oneself.

I do understand what you are talking about. I spent decades passionately seeking God, studying theology, praying and "being still before the Lord". But ultimately what I found was that I was listening intently to dead air, and anything I thought I was "receiving" turned out to be a product of my own mind, my confirmation bias. I have looked, sensed, listened and tested within myself and my own experience, and found no divine, no God, nothing. It was not until I hit the end of my rope, put aside my preconceived expectations, and waited on a God who never came, that I started to evaluate evidence, read and listen to others as they grappled with the same thing.



If my inner sense, my "listening in", my experience of the spiritual is what we are supposed to rely on instead of reason, logic, and evidence, I still come to the same place. Namely, that there is no deity, at least not of the sort that interacts with humanity in any degree.



-NoCapo
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:49 PM
 
7,946 posts, read 6,786,737 times
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Millions of people have chose Heaven through Jesus to be their life after death , and Even God tells the church today to go out and get more people to come as many are going to hell as God needs all people to go to heaven ........ , Yes God said in the church were I go that many people are going to hell , as Hell is not a invention of man ....... So people who ignore the call of God will get a wake up call in the after life but it will be to late .....
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:50 PM
 
37,942 posts, read 25,634,371 times
Reputation: 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
I've experienced my share of "evidence" over decades. But it hasn't come from listening to others, reading others' ideas, or looking for proof the way a scientist or atheist would. It's been an abandonment of that feeble approach, clearing the board of all rules/theories/ideas, and then "listening in / tuning in" (for lack of better definition) to sense what's there. It's an entirely quiet and subtle means of sensing and picking up. If you've never tried it, you'll have no clue of what I'm talking about. The existence of God (and/or the spiritual realm) cannot be proven from one person to another. It can only be sensed and proven within oneself.
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