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Old Yesterday, 09:55 PM
Status: "Bemused and bucolic. Ish." (set 23 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,895 posts, read 12,360,482 times
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I'd rather the link worked.
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Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
52,267 posts, read 51,393,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I'd rather the link worked.
Yes, I meant to mention that.

OP, do you have a working link to the story you are referencing?
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,575 posts, read 2,657,453 times
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I was waiting for someone to tell me my son was going to hell for his suicide. I'm not sure what I was planning to do - probably tell him exactly how where and when to go to hell themself. But no-one did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
This is a Catholic thing. Protestants do not believe this.
Yes they do. Depending on which one I suppose. In my parts they don't seem to.

In my sister's community (Lutheran), anyone committing suicide would be buried with their grave oriented sideways and away from the main. It's considered (and called) self-murder.
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Old Yesterday, 10:40 PM
 
9,066 posts, read 12,061,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
The word "doctrine" means nothing more than "teachings." Are you meaning to say that everything every church teaches is "garbage."
What I mean is that this was a tragic human event that was occurring. He could have tried to handle it with some compassion and dignity. Instead he thought that he should inject his church's official teachings into a situation in which he should have just practiced the teachings of Christ instead. And doctrine will always violate that.
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Old Today, 12:36 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,209 posts, read 4,392,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
What I mean is that this was a tragic human event that was occurring. He could have tried to handle it with some compassion and dignity. Instead he thought that he should inject his church's official teachings into a situation in which he should have just practiced the teachings of Christ instead. And doctrine will always violate that.
He was just calling Jews vipers, nonJews dogs and swine, and turning over tables and throwing chairs, chasing people with whips. Completely innocent, WWJD, pearls before swine, sort of stuff.

At least, why would this particular priest ever see it otherwise?

Regardless, suicide and assisted suicide are complex doctrines in the Christian churches.
Most of the time, military personnel must commit a type of suicide/killing and self-sacrifice on the battlefield. Plus, if a disease is seen as leading to the suicide, then the disease can be blamed, rather than the person. If the person is deemed to have committed suicide for purely "self-serving" and "unnecessary" motives under their "full mental capacity," then it is most often frowned upon and interjected as illegal to the Holy Spirit and part of the only unforgivable sin "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit"... "self-murder" is thus either not an unforgivable sin, or another type of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, although blasphemy means something completely related to speech.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; Today at 12:49 AM..
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Old Today, 04:40 AM
Status: "People and tear gas - either it's a border or it isn't." (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
13,697 posts, read 5,405,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I'd rather the link worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Yes, I meant to mention that.

OP, do you have a working link to the story you are referencing?
Here is is, https://www.foxnews.com/us/parents-w...uneral-removed . I "reported" my own post. My apologies.
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Old Today, 06:14 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,477 posts, read 10,509,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I was waiting for someone to tell me my son was going to hell for his suicide. I'm not sure what I was planning to do - probably tell him exactly how where and when to go to hell themself. But no-one did.


Yes they do. Depending on which one I suppose. In my parts they don't seem to.

In my sister's community (Lutheran), anyone committing suicide would be buried with their grave oriented sideways and away from the main. It's considered (and called) self-murder.
It saddens me every time I see your posts about your son. You show a great deal of strength to be able to talk about it. I can't imagine the pain you have felt, and am so sorry you lost your son.

Not all Lutherans think the way your sister's church does. In the United States, there are at least 3 denominations of Lutherans. Two are strict, conservative denominations. The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) is a liberal Christian denomination similar to the Episcopal (Anglican) church. (As a matter of fact, Episcopal and ELCA pastors are permitted to perform rituals in each others' churches.) [Evangelical is just the NAME of the denomination. It is NOT an accurate description of them.] ELCA Lutherans would never treat anybody badly over a suicide.
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Old Today, 06:29 AM
 
10,953 posts, read 4,286,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I was waiting for someone to tell me my son was going to hell for his suicide. I'm not sure what I was planning to do - probably tell him exactly how where and when to go to hell themself. But no-one did.


Yes they do. Depending on which one I suppose. In my parts they don't seem to.

In my sister's community (Lutheran), anyone committing suicide would be buried with their grave oriented sideways and away from the main. It's considered (and called) self-murder.
I was atheist before I really understood this notion but once I heard it I was like "That's absolutely wrong". That's akin to holding a car responsible for not driving "normal" with a flat. Or holding a person that lost a leg for not be able to run "normal", with no aid that is.

I don't know you or what goes on in your life but losing your son is horrible. You are a "strong atheist" so i will be more blunt with you. It was either "parents", mental, or some of life's twist and turns that took your son. either way, if there is a heaven your son's debt is paid in full and he is their.

I believe, because I am atheist, that he was in heaven by knowing you and your wife and he had the best the situation could allow for.
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Old Today, 06:53 AM
 
Location: European Union
11,827 posts, read 13,280,433 times
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I read the story on two other sites yesterday, one American (not the Fox report) and the other European. Both mentioned that the parents had met with the priest before the funeral to discuss the arrangements and what they wanted as a homily. This may have been the U.S. site.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/20...p-news-videos/

I am a former Catholic, and was raised in the era when unbaptized babies and suicides were buried in a section of ground outside the regular cemetery, etc. My infant sister could only be buried in a cemetery with her Protestant grandparents if the grave was constructed according to the specifications of the priest so that is would be a little piece of Catholic holy ground within the heretical graveyard. Thus, this priest's doctrinal stand seems SOP for R.C. clergy.

What I think is heinous is that he did not come right out at the meeting with the parents and state what his position was, and that he could not conduct their son's funeral without questioning his act and mentioning his possible condemnation to hell. This - to my mind - is the bigger problem. He could have spared them the ugliness that he made of their son's funeral by being forthright, but he evidently was not. He treacherously set them up for pain and humiliation.

You have your doctrinal beliefs, father - okay, give this funeral a no-go; but his preferred route was one of evil.
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Old Today, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
13,238 posts, read 11,017,975 times
Reputation: 15172
Shame on that priest.
Perfect example of - Think it, believe it, don't say it.
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