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Old 12-16-2018, 06:30 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
At a funeral?
Right... I wonder if they say/think stuff like this about Atheists/Anti-theists hurting their feelings on message boards with non-theist or anti-theistic ideas.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,033 posts, read 7,752,256 times
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I find it surprising that people are shocked by this.

Zealous believers say and support all sorts of horrible things. Many are in favor of forcing women to continue pregnancies after being raped. Catholic hospitals will let people die rather than perform certain procedures. Many denominations are against divorce even when spousal abuse takes place. The mere thought of original sin is rather horrifying.

I have attended funerals where the minister ranted about hell, and the only way to avoid it being a Christian profession of faith.

Catholics believe suicide to be a sin. What is so shocking about hearing this at a funeral? The priest was only being truthful about catholic teachings, and less empathic than most people are.

Yes, it was rude, and cruel, and true to religion.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
52,383 posts, read 51,494,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
A priest, or any person on Earth, can make any statement. It just an opinion, nothing more.

If this stuff bothers you, ignore it and move on. Be concerned with what YOU think; not the opinions of others. You're not going to change anyone's opinion anyway. Translation for the dense-minded: you're wasting your damn time.
That's not much more of a comforting thing to say to grieving parents than what the priest said. Maybe one rung down on the "what not to say" ladder.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: planet earth
3,445 posts, read 1,214,962 times
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I think religions and attendees should be congruent . . . if the Catholic Church teaches suicide is a Mortal Sin (someone said that is being reconsidered? I thought these rules were Divinely inspired - as George Carlin said, "There are people in purgatory doing time on bum rap" (eating meat on Friday, but I digress) . . . anyway, if you belong to a religion that teaches that and your kid does that - don't have the funeral be a religious funeral if you don't want to hear about the teaching.

I agree it was crass and nasty to say that, but that is what the Church teaches, so . . .

I believe suicide is murder - and that each soul has contracted to come here for a specific reason, and if they opt out - they suffer in the sense that they have to do extra studies, etc. (This is per Dolores Cannon - YouTube). I was raised Catholic, though, so have the teaching it is wrong as a base. I also feel it is very wrong to hurt your family in that way.

This family should have opted for a non-religious funeral, given their sensitivity to the teachings.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:59 PM
 
9,117 posts, read 12,086,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
I find it surprising that people are shocked by this.

Zealous believers say and support all sorts of horrible things. Many are in favor of forcing women to continue pregnancies after being raped. Catholic hospitals will let people die rather than perform certain procedures. Many denominations are against divorce even when spousal abuse takes place. The mere thought of original sin is rather horrifying.

I have attended funerals where the minister ranted about hell, and the only way to avoid it being a Christian profession of faith.

Catholics believe suicide to be a sin. What is so shocking about hearing this at a funeral? The priest was only being truthful about catholic teachings, and less empathic than most people are.

Yes, it was rude, and cruel, and true to religion.
But not every priest would have handled the situation that way. I know it's considered an official part of the doctrine, but, honestly, I don't know if every minister in a given church or denomination necessarily believes every "official" doctrinal matter. It doesn't seem possible. In fact I know there are some Roman Catholic priests who don't believe in Hell anyway.
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:05 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 7,580,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Oh yes, some of them do. I've posted several times on here the story of when a childhood friend of the family shot himself in the head (about 25 years ago) his parents went to church on Sunday only to have another church member come up and say, "I'm sorry to hear about your son, but you know he went straight to hell."

Reformed Church.
That was an individual person. That doesn't necessarily indicate official church doctrine. Never get the two confused.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,033 posts, read 7,752,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
I think religions and attendees should be congruent . . . if the Catholic Church teaches suicide is a Mortal Sin (someone said that is being reconsidered? I thought these rules were Divinely inspired - as George Carlin said, "There are people in purgatory doing time on bum rap" (eating meat on Friday, but I digress) . . . anyway, if you belong to a religion that teaches that and your kid does that - don't have the funeral be a religious funeral if you don't want to hear about the teaching.

I agree it was crass and nasty to say that, but that is what the Church teaches, so . . .

I believe suicide is murder - and that each soul has contracted to come here for a specific reason, and if they opt out - they suffer in the sense that they have to do extra studies, etc. (This is per Dolores Cannon - YouTube). I was raised Catholic, though, so have the teaching it is wrong as a base. I also feel it is very wrong to hurt your family in that way.

This family should have opted for a non-religious funeral, given their sensitivity to the teachings.
Although I differ with you on the basics of belief, as I do not believe in souls, a guided purpose for existence, etc, I do agree with you that a religious funeral is a bad choice if you donít want to hear a religious message. It is really no different than a Jew having a Christian, Moslem, Hindu or Pagan funeral, or vice versa.

If you have a religious officiant, you should be prepared for a religious message.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:24 PM
Status: "People and tear gas - either it's a border or it isn't." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
13,753 posts, read 5,428,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
If you have a religious officiant, you should be prepared for a religious message.
At the risk of repeating myself from Post #27, I must say I don't agree with you. I am Jewish and have met with three different rabbis and cantors (I had a cantor officiate my mother's funeral) during the brief interval between death and the funeral. The Jewish religion mandates that the interval be extremely brief.

The first time was in January 1973. We met with the rabbi Friday, shortly after my father passed away We discussed what the Rabbi was going to say at the funeral. Since I was 15 years old I was not going to be speaking How men for a variety of reasons my mother was not going to be speaking. The speech is the rabbi gave had very little to do with religion in a lot to do with the deceased. Including his guitar-playing acumen.

The second time was in December 2013 My stepfather had just passed away, and for a lot of I was coordinating the speaking engagements at the funeral. Since by that time I was 56 years old, I was in a position to speak, and would deliver much of the eulogies. My step sister delivered about 2 minutes of eulogy, and I delivered about eight minutes. The Rabbi spoke for about 3 minutes, much of which was the standard Jewish prayers, including, notably, the psalm "G-d is my shepherd...." It was much the same with my mother's death year later, except that I chose the cantor, rather than one of the Rabbis, to officiate.

The preparation for these personalized funeral does take a significant amount of clerical time. Because the funeral must be held promptly after the death, whatever the chosen cleric has on his schedule gets bounced so that he can meet with the family in person, typically for a 30 to 45 minutes. At the meeting involving my father, on January 5, 1973, I learned a significant amount about the Jewish religion that my Sunday school and Hebrew school teachers, for whatever reason, somehow forgot to teach. This is a large part of what brought my interest in Judaism.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,033 posts, read 7,752,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
At the risk of repeating myself from Post #27, I must say I don't agree with you. I am Jewish and have met with three different rabbis and cantors (I had a cantor officiate my mother's funeral) during the brief interval between death and the funeral. The Jewish religion mandates that the interval be extremely brief.
I donít see your anecdote as being on conflict with my post.

You contacted Jewish officiants, and you got Jewish prayers. That was a religious funeral.

Obviously different people and different denominations are going to have different degrees of forcefulness in their approach, and some clergy are going to be more empathic than others. You were at the other end of the spectrum from the article cited by the OP, but that may simply be as a result of your particular branch of Judaism, your thorough vetting of the clergy, luck, or a combination of all three.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:36 PM
 
7,379 posts, read 3,028,911 times
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No wonder there are so many atheists. Like the priest knows.
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