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This to my mind is about the only reason to believe in an afterlife. When I was contemplating suicide at Cornell one of the RA's, who was Jewish said "how do you know it's not going to be worse" in the afterlife. Even though neither of us particularly believed in the afterlife the uncertainty was a factor in persuading me not to "gorge out", or leap into one of Cornell's scenic gorges.
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Originally Posted by rstevens62
Yes, that is a HUGE HUGE risk to take, you could be jumping from the frying pan into the fire...we just dont know.
I cannot believe this thought doesnt enter into the minds of those who commit suicide and go thru with it, they must have some expectation that killing themselves will relieve them and/or make them feel better...right?
jbgusa, I am glad that you successfully got through that dark period of your life. However, I don't find these arguments convincing.
We all die. Sooner or later, it will happen. Should there be an afterlife, if it is worse than our current life, there is nothing to be done about it. Absolutely nothing. Whether we die today, or 50 years from now, that fate will still meet us. Avoiding suicide, while generally meritorious for other reasons, doesn't change that fact.
Aside from this, we are back to the reasons to be an atheist. We have no good reason to expect an afterlife, and even if we did suspect an afterlife, we have no reason to expect it to be good, bad, or indifferent. Given the lack of information available to us, it only makes sense to base our decisions on this life, without worrying about an afterlife about which we know absolutely nothing.
Sort of like people going on Christian message boards and attacking religion, trying to destroy their belief.
This isn't a 'Christian' massage board.
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Originally Posted by Kavalier
Atheists are rabid on this forum.
...and thank goodness for it. Otherwise, rabid Christians would be taking over the world. Perhaps you think we should just sit down, shut up and let you get on with it huh? We 'rabid' atheists are here to tell you that it isn't going to happen. 'New atheism' is here and we are going to fight the spread of your superstitious hogwash.
Sort of like people going on Christian message boards and attacking religion, trying to destroy their belief. There are bad people that just like to mock people everywhere. This priest was wrong.
actually, I am more worried about 'blind faith" more than anything else. It destroys so many reasonable conclusions that it really needs to be outlawed.
jbgusa, I am glad that you successfully got through that dark period of your life. However, I don't find these arguments convincing.
We all die. Sooner or later, it will happen. Should there be an afterlife, if it is worse than our current life, there is nothing to be done about it. Absolutely nothing. Whether we die today, or 50 years from now, that fate will still meet us. Avoiding suicide, while generally meritorious for other reasons, doesn't change that fact.
Aside from this, we are back to the reasons to be an atheist. We have no good reason to expect an afterlife, and even if we did suspect an afterlife, we have no reason to expect it to be good, bad, or indifferent. Given the lack of information available to us, it only makes sense to base our decisions on this life, without worrying about an afterlife about which we know absolutely nothing.
You are right, if we eventually will end up in a more terrible place, it wont matter, but its second nature to try and put that off as long as possible, to stay alive as long as possible.
If someone said you had to go to prison for the rest of your life, but you could go tomorrow or 30 yrs from now...Id bet everyone waits as long as possible.
At a funeral, there is a more or less captive audience.
Even at funerals the "captives" can occasionally find themselves involved in the action.
About 25 years ago I attended a Catholic funeral for a man I worked with. Not being Catholic, or even a Christian, I simply sat quietly during the responses. And of course, I declined to take communion. One of the priests, an old man, noticed me standing quietly during communion, and questioned me. I admitted that, not only was I not a Catholic, but that I was an atheist. He actually brightened, and went into his spiel about Jesus and salvation. I listened quietly, and then responded back. His face grew dark as I spoke and suddenly he tried to slap my face. Being twice my age and half my size I simply blocked his slap with my hand. He began shouting threats to my "mortal soul" and stalked off.
As a rule funerals are not as entertaining as that one was.
You are right, if we eventually will end up in a more terrible place, it wont matter, but its second nature to try and put that off as long as possible, to stay alive as long as possible.
If someone said you had to go to prison for the rest of your life, but you could go tomorrow or 30 yrs from now...Id bet everyone waits as long as possible.
Except we know for a fact that prison exists, and we know that the conditions are not desirable. It is therefore a reasonable action to delay going to prison.
A better analogy would be to say that there are a million unmarked doors in front of you. One leads to paradise, one leads to torment, and 999,998 lead to oblivion. You must choose a door sooner or later, and you are in tremendous pain right now, do you choose now or later?
Even at funerals the "captives" can occasionally find themselves involved in the action.
About 25 years ago I attended a Catholic funeral for a man I worked with. Not being Catholic, or even a Christian, I simply sat quietly during the responses. And of course, I declined to take communion. One of the priests, an old man, noticed me standing quietly during communion, and questioned me. I admitted that, not only was I not a Catholic, but that I was an atheist. He actually brightened, and went into his spiel about Jesus and salvation. I listened quietly, and then responded back. His face grew dark as I spoke and suddenly he tried to slap my face. Being twice my age and half my size I simply blocked his slap with my hand. He began shouting threats to my "mortal soul" and stalked off.
As a rule funerals are not as entertaining as that one was.
I can't beat that. But many years ago, long after I stopped being a catholic, my father and aunt came down to visit me (they lived in NYS, I then lived outside of D.C.). They wanted to go to mass, so I relented. In the middle of the mass, directly in front of me, a man suddenly went hysterical. It lasted long enough that men literally carried him outside the church. I had joked before we went into the church that the walls might cave in when I entered...but I thought this was even better evidence that I didn't belong in a catholic church.
I can't beat that. But many years ago, long after I stopped being a catholic, my father and aunt came down to visit me (they lived in NYS, I then lived outside of D.C.). They wanted to go to mass, so I relented. In the middle of the mass, directly in front of me, a man suddenly went hysterical. It lasted long enough that men literally carried him outside the church. I had joked before we went into the church that the walls might cave in when I entered...but I thought this was even better evidence that I didn't belong in a catholic church.
You never know when you will be "filled with the Holy Spirit."
And of course, I declined to take communion. One of the priests, an old man, noticed me standing quietly during communion, and questioned me. I admitted that, not only was I not a Catholic, but that I was an atheist.
I went to my one and only Catholic funeral in June 1978. I am Jewish and had no idea what communion was. I accidentally ingested the wafer.
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