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Old Yesterday, 03:31 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 1,348,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
"belief not based on proof" ... thats blind faith.


"BECAUSE, faith does NOT require proof" ... blind faith.
No, that's not what the dictionary says. That's your own interpretation, and I don't agree with it.

And I think we need to clear this up and get on the same page to know the difference between "Faith" and "Blind Faith".

Is that a fair enough point to discuss?

If yes, then hopefully we will do it in the coming discussion below BEFORE moving back to thread # 179 which was in response to thread # 163.


Quote:
My faith is observational based "faith". i use measuring and calculation, along with common sense, to say that humans are in a system of life. That's the god you think you know.
OK, that sounds somewhat better because you are NOT talking about an "Evidence" - you are talking about using intelligence and common sense to arrive at a point form the faith.

The big question now is, (before we move back to figuring out what's "Blind Faith"), "How does one arrive to forming a Religious "Faith"?

Please tell me in your own words, How do you think people arrive to a point where they form a " Religious Faith"?
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Old Today, 07:47 AM
 
11,033 posts, read 4,317,063 times
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GC, I don't care what the dictionary says. I care about what people's intentions are. what is the intentions of a person that teaches to "we don't need observations, or a process in evaluating observations, to have a "faith statement." If the intentions are sound then the definitions work themselves out.

We are talking about people believing things without observations as support. I have no idea how you think that is even reasonable. If I can get people to believe the things I say on blind faith I have them right where I want them. Its takes a component person to be able to handle that. As proof of how bad blind faith can go look at american secondary schools. those people that run/ran our schools have destroyed our schools and its all based on feel good blind faith. I wish i didn't need to use reality to make choices, my life would be so much easier.

religous people form belief because I feel that many people were not taught, or learned, how to properly form a belief based on the actual events going on around them. There is also a segment of the population that intentionally steer people away from a sound method in building a belief because they are hiding a nasty truth.

for example. I use my atheism as example because that is what I know. I talk about how believers are really just experiencing their connection to the living system around them and mislabeling it 'whatever'. Some atheist in one sect told me not to talk about it. I asked "why?" they said that "some of us feel religion is so dangerous they can't give anything that theist can use because it makes atheism harder to sell." thats one sick belief.

You are actually up against these people. they are not most atheist. Look at the numbers you are talking to. Its not many. Many, many, more atheist are like me. They do not believe in your god but we see and understand the universe as good as anybody. but we also see that anti-religious socialism is just as dangerous as any religion.

My issue with you is pushing the notion that its ok to believe on "faith" with no observation. A dude dying, waking up, and flying away for our sins is hogwash. And teaching its ok to believe that because a dictionary says so is well, probabilistic.
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Old Today, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,633 posts, read 9,246,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
...

Please tell me in your own words, How do you think people arrive to a point where they form a " Religious Faith"?
Despite becoming an atheist within the past two years, from age 8 to age 67, I was a christian, or a christian-Buddhist. As a result, except for my friends in Thailand (where I lived for a few years), all of my friends are christian. Of course, I don't know the religious background of every friend I ever had, but of all the christians I have known and discussed religion with, ALL OF THEM as adults simply go to the denomination their parents started them out as, or, in a very few cases they changed from one protestant denomination to another protestant denomination (e.g., from being a methodist to being a presbyterian). In my case, in my teen years, I changed from methodist (my mother's side of the family) to catholic (my father's side of the family).

This idea that you seem to have...that people who call themselves christians "form a religious faith"...is, in my view, terribly flawed thinking. When you parents start you out in a particular church when you're a little boy or girl, and you always identify with that denomination...that does not indicate any "forming of a religious faith". That indicates habits. Sort of like in the old days when if dad was a farmer--son became a farmer, if dad drank beer--son drank beer, if mom cooked mac and cheese and meatloaf--son still like mac and cheese and meatloaf type of thinking.

Do you have any idea what percent of the people in this country can have an intelligent discussion about how they arrived at their religious faith? What books they read or lectures they attended about various religions to make some choices? About what kinds of discussions they have had with others about various religions to make those choices?

I'm in a group that plays dominoes or cards every Tuesday night at a local deli/restaurant. Sitting a few tables away are almost always (for well over two years) a group of four men at a table who study the bible for about 3 hours each week at the same time we're playing dominoes or cards. They appear to be full of faith in a closed echo chamber. I don't ever see them with anything but the same old bibles. I don't ever see them with any Buddhist books, or Hindu, or anything other than the same old bibles. Where exactly for people like these men is there any studying of religion to make a intelligent choice about faith? They're talking totally within the box, never thinking about any of the other possibilities in terms of religion or no religion.

75% of Americans identify themselves as christians, yet 63% of Americans don't attend church regularly. Are you naive enough to believe that those 63% give much deep thought about religious choices? The catholic side of my family were, to a large extent, regular attendees of mass. My grandmother was a regular attendee of a methodist church. All of my family on both sides identified as being a christian. But outside of church services, I never heard a one of them talk about their beliefs in god. It was all very superficial. All a veneer. It had nothing to do with them "forming a religious faith"; it had everything to do with habits they had obtained from childhood, and I doubt that my family was that different from millions of families across this country.
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Old Today, 04:56 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 1,348,481 times
Reputation: 1138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
GC, I don't care what the dictionary says.
Sorry but I stopped reading after that.

You call it a duck and I call it a Zebra.
Who is going to decide whether itís a duck or Zebra?
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Old Today, 04:59 PM
 
11,033 posts, read 4,317,063 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Sorry but I stopped reading after that.

You call it a duck and I call it a Zebra.
Who is going to decide whether itís a duck or Zebra?
I know; You had to stop. your and my intentions differ.

you will be forgiven.
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