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Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
 
788 posts, read 387,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Some very religious multi-millionaires have funded many scientific studies to figure out whether prayer works - medically. They tried every possible angle - from 100's of people praying for one to one to one...

The Honest Christians who funded these studies saw absolutely nothing to prove that prayer moved the stats....at all. Not even a little bit.

That doesn't mean people shouldn't pray or shouldn't meditate (proven to do some good) or shouldn't carry lucky charms. Some people pray, others smoke pot, others take a pill and others sit in the hot tub....or all of these things. People need to feel as if they have SOME control or some relief from suffering.

Or, as Marx put it "Religion is the opiate of the masses". The bigger question is whether opiates are bad. Complex.

It is rare to find a "Honest Christian". As for prayer, God does not hear the prayer of the sinner. (John 9:31). You will find 1 man in a thousand, not a hundred. (Ecc 7:28).


NASB Ecc 7:28
which I am still seeking but have not found. I have found one man among a thousand, but I have not found a woman among all these.
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Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 212,302 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Let's look at this example, logo.

A father tells his 5 year old son, "Son, I'm going away but always remember I love you. I'll hang a picture of myself on the wall to remind you of me." Then the father leaves. For the next 60 years the father doesn't communicate with his son. He doesn't send him a birthday card or gifts. He doesn't send any money for support. He doesn't call or write. He makes absolutely no attempt to let his son know he's still alive.

The son cannot prove in a court of law his father doesn't love him, but can the son surmise from all the outward signs that his father doesn't love him or care about him? Yes or no? Be honest.

Yes, the obvious conclusion is that his father doesn't love him. The question we are discussing is not whether or not Jesus love us, the question is Does he exist? The way you are setting the question it is obvious that you do believe that love exist, but you cannot give tangible evidence that it does. Same with Jesus.
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Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM
 
9,983 posts, read 2,714,524 times
Reputation: 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
Yes, the obvious conclusion is that his father doesn't love him. The question we are discussing is not whether or not Jesus love us, the question is Does he exist? The way you are setting the question it is obvious that you do believe that love exist, but you cannot give tangible evidence that it does. Same with Jesus.
We could pretty much say the same about the Build-a-Bear we made for our 9 year old. Does it love her?

She surely thinks it does.
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Old Yesterday, 03:19 PM
 
9,983 posts, read 2,714,524 times
Reputation: 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
It is rare to find a "Honest Christian". As for prayer, God does not hear the prayer of the sinner. (John 9:31). You will find 1 man in a thousand, not a hundred. (Ecc 7:28).


NASB Ecc 7:28
which I am still seeking but have not found. I have found one man among a thousand, but I have not found a woman among all these.
Honest scientifically, my friend. As is 2 plus 2 = 4. As in Gravity Matters.
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Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 212,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
We could pretty much say the same about the Build-a-Bear we made for our 9 year old. Does it love her?

She surely thinks it does.

Why don't people stay on subject? We are discussing does Jesus exist. if you are letting your 9 year old daughter believe that a stuff animal love her, the problem is you not her.
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Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM
Status: "Liberals used to be for border security." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,329 posts, read 8,373,107 times
Reputation: 1555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Churches are closing because Christianity is in the process of dying out and fading away. Fewer Christians mean fewer churches are needed.

Do I have any data to back this up? Why, yes I do!



Christianity has been declining at the rate of about 1% per year since the beginning of this century. Committed Christians like yourself will remain committed Christians as long as you live, of course. But no one lives forever. What is currently occuring is that as committed Christians die out, there are fewer and fewer committed Christians to take their place. The current trend indicates that Christianity will be all but dead by the end of this century. Much like the religions of Zeus and Odin, etc.
Thatís not exactly what you said below. Nevertheless, Christianity has existed for 2,000 years. While it may decrease in some areas, I doubt it will ever die out completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Most churches are dying because their parishioners are literally dying and their buildings are small, old and outdated and located in parts of town that are changing.

Meanwhile Jesus is buying up all the old supermarkets, and buildings that Walmart has killed for his new gig.

Jesus is also bailing on pianos and organs and is going with the electric sound. No more hymns for him.
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Old Yesterday, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,259 posts, read 9,366,202 times
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When predators infest institutions of religion, it's not surprising when the congregation bolts.
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Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
Status: "Liberals used to be for border security." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,329 posts, read 8,373,107 times
Reputation: 1555
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Well, if Jesus was alive and active in my life for 60 years then I didn't "tolerate nothing" for 60 years, did I? Jimmi, you should really reason out your responses before pouring them willy-nilly onto the board.

As for Jeffbase's response, yes I dismissed it out of hand--because it was idiotic. Imagine saving one girl "because she might cure cancer some day" and then allowing 100,000 other Christian children to die for no good reason at all. Listen to Tired of the Nonsense above. If God arbitrarily saves one and turns His back on thousands of others, He should be ashamed of himself, playing favorites when he promises he not a respecter of person. I mean why is God talking out of both sides of his mouth? or translated for you Christians: why is the Bible contradicting itself yet again???????

Now jimmi, do you care about my salvation like all good Christians say they do or are you one of these Mike-types who say "You can choose to go to hell if you want, I don't care either way."

If you care here's how you can bring me back to Jesus:

Show me some tangible proof not from the Bible but something visible today that shows Jesus directly intervening in the world, not "he's building churches all around the world and talking to men's hearts" stuff. Jesus isn't doing that, men are.

Show me something tangible and I will renounce my apostasy and come back to Jesus. Should be simple as pie for you.

Unless you haven't got anything, of course, which if you did I'm sure you'd have responded with it in post no 2.
For 60 years, you had a relationship with Jesus, praying to Him, worshipping Him, reading and studying His word, fellowshipping with other believers, and then you stopped? Thatís like getting a divorce after 50 years of marriage.

Because Jesus doesnít answer ALL prayers in the affimative, youíre convinced He doesnít exist? Thatís illogical. Did your parents ALWAYS say yes to your requests. We live in a broken world (see Genesis 3); bad things happen.

Assuming you were saved earlier in your life, I believe you will be with Jesus in Heaven when you pass from this life.
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Old Yesterday, 05:33 PM
 
10,377 posts, read 10,697,227 times
Reputation: 3143
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
Yes, the obvious conclusion is that his father doesn't love him. The question we are discussing is not whether or not Jesus love us, the question is Does he exist? The way you are setting the question it is obvious that you do believe that love exist, but you cannot give tangible evidence that it does. Same with Jesus.
Okay, logo we can do this in short order. You believe Jesus exists. What evidence if any does Jesus give TO THE WORLD that he exists? I mean people aren't stupid. If they don't believe in Jesus if for the reason Jesus doesn't give them any evidence he exists, right? Because if he cared about their salvation he'd give all sorts of evidence of his existence that no skeptic in their right mind could refute, right?

So what evidence does Jesus offer the world that he is alive today that no person in their right mind could refute? Please, let's just start with that question.

Again, if you cannot tell us what that evidence is, that's okay. We'll understand your inability because frankly there is no evidence you have to offer that would satisfy the average skeptic Jesus is alive today. But again if you have some secret stash of evidence the world doesn't know about we'd love to hear it.
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Old Yesterday, 07:21 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 212,302 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Okay, logo we can do this in short order. You believe Jesus exists. What evidence if any does Jesus give TO THE WORLD that he exists? I mean people aren't stupid. If they don't believe in Jesus if for the reason Jesus doesn't give them any evidence he exists, right? Because if he cared about their salvation he'd give all sorts of evidence of his existence that no skeptic in their right mind could refute, right?

So what evidence does Jesus offer the world that he is alive today that no person in their right mind could refute? Please, let's just start with that question.

Again, if you cannot tell us what that evidence is, that's okay. We'll understand your inability because frankly there is no evidence you have to offer that would satisfy the average skeptic Jesus is alive today. But again if you have some secret stash of evidence the world doesn't know about we'd love to hear it.

I have showed two things, that the number of churches do not prove the existence of a deity and that you cannot prove that something does not exit [it is an impossibility].

You keep insisting on evidence, yet you could not provide evidence of the things YOU believe in. You didn't answer the question but I assume you believe LOVE exist. Give me tangible evidence of its existence; I mean scientific provable evidence. It is impossible. At most you could show that humans show affection and care for one another, but even animals do that. When talking about the deep personal experience for one another that we call LOVE, you cannot show any evidence of its existence; yet we all believe in it. In the case of Jesus, he represent universal love (as I understand it).

So to make it simple, Neither I nor anybody can "prove" the existence of Jesus. Yet, when there are people who claim that he does exist, all we can say is: I cannot see it; whether he exists or not I cannot say. So yes, it remains a believe, one I that I feel is positive in my life. If you think this believe is not positive, then that's your decision. But do not try to push irrational arguments.

Last edited by thelogo; Yesterday at 07:40 PM..
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