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Old 01-08-2019, 10:37 PM
 
10,426 posts, read 10,744,698 times
Reputation: 3151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post

In case of theology, we cannot instantly find out whether our faith (the ladder) is the best one or not - we have to wait till our time is up, the last curtain falls on our eyes, and probably only then we will know.

Many have gone up using various ladders (religions), but no one has come back to tell us whether their ladder was able to help them reach the right point of their intended destination.
This is God's fault. If we don't know where the ladder leads to the blame rests solely with Him. He hasn't given us a nickel's worth of evidence what lies beyond the veil of this life. Here is where the Christians fail epically. They want us to believe that some scribblings dating to 2000 years ago from authors we don't even know their names--forget Matthew, Mark, Luke and John on this one, please!---we don't have the vaguest clue who wrote the New Testament, at least the gospels. So when Jesus is said to say, "If ye do not believe in me ye will die in your sins and go to hell" we haven't the vaguest clue whether this was Eusebius of Caesarea using his usual propaganda tactics or some punch-drunk monk drinking too much Jesus juice one night when he scrawled this out-of-the-blue thought on parchment. In short, we cannot trust the veracity of any of the stuff found in the New Testament that uses the stick of eternal torment in hell to bash us over the head to accept Jesus and get up the ladder to heaven or down to hell. It's all nonsense.

If God had wanted us to know what lies beyond this life He would have done a much better job of letting Jesus' words survive INTACT and without any doubt they originated from him, instead of the half-baked job He did of leaving what He did for us.
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
13,448 posts, read 11,144,884 times
Reputation: 15267
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
He hasn't given us a nickel's worth of evidence what lies beyond the veil of this life.
Here is where the Christians fail epically.
This is what I have to offer the naysayers, agnostics, doubters, questioners or blamers...or just plain folks in the dark:

Gee whiz...anybody can sit and "Be still..."
I dont give people much of my care listening to their complaints about God or mysteries,
when they haven't put in a darn bit of effort....the kind of effort that works....it takes inner
conviction, discipline, deep desire, determination, steadfastness, consistency and sincerity to sit in silence
for hours and hours and hours and hours+.

Then you'll get all you want to know about any afterlife...inside is where the veils are lifted, you bozos.

Do that...put in the time...and then you will be given Insights galore into the entire workings of creation!
There will be no more wondering even about the daily happenings of losing a job, your car getting broken into...or the joys that befall you either.

Life and God are really very simple.
So simple the mind or ego wants to complicate them.
Don't fall for its trap.
Be stll and know...understand...get the whole package.

To me, you that professionally have made a career to put down God or whatever, look like children rubbing their eyes from sleep...complaining and moaning and
carrying on...when you haven't even showered or had your coffee...like big babies.

Do what needs to be done instead using the lazy man's tool...Blame and whining...ha, and at the same time
thinking what the egoic mind wants you to think , lol, that you are so clever and smarter than the other fool.
To me, the shoe's on the other foot!
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Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,375,292 times
Reputation: 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is God's fault. If we don't know where the ladder leads to the blame rests solely with Him. He hasn't given us a nickel's worth of evidence what lies beyond the veil of this life. Here is where the Christians fail epically. They want us to believe that some scribblings dating to 2000 years ago from authors we don't even know their names--forget Matthew, Mark, Luke and John on this one, please!---we don't have the vaguest clue who wrote the New Testament, at least the gospels. So when Jesus is said to say, "If ye do not believe in me ye will die in your sins and go to hell" we haven't the vaguest clue whether this was Eusebius of Caesarea using his usual propaganda tactics or some punch-drunk monk drinking too much Jesus juice one night when he scrawled this out-of-the-blue thought on parchment. In short, we cannot trust the veracity of any of the stuff found in the New Testament that uses the stick of eternal torment in hell to bash us over the head to accept Jesus and get up the ladder to heaven or down to hell. It's all nonsense.

If God had wanted us to know what lies beyond this life He would have done a much better job of letting Jesus' words survive INTACT and without any doubt they originated from him, instead of the half-baked job He did of leaving what He did for us.
Again, if it's a game of probabilities and your logic and intelligence tells you that the probability of afterlife is an absolute zero, and there is nothing beyond death, then you believe what you believe. That's your choice.

And obviously, if you believe that there is no God and no force out there, then you must also believe that "The entire universe and everything in it came together all by itself" - INSTEAD OF saying, "I don't know". You MUST know this - just as you KNOW that there is no afterlife and you KNOW that there is no God. According to your assessment, both these probabilities are ZERO.

And then you keep begging for evidence - and we start the loop again.
"It's faith. And faith is NOT based on evidence."

I think the crux of the problem you are facing is a classical Atheist scenario.

You don't feel the need and a want, to search for God by his signs - and you don't feel the need of God's guidance in your day to day life - AND - based on your assessment of how modern day Christianity is presented in a disappointing way, you dismiss the existence of God altogether - which gives you some sort of solace to live by what's underlined above.
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Old Yesterday, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Germany
3,113 posts, read 547,226 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Again, if it's a game of probabilities and your logic and intelligence tells you that the probability of afterlife is an absolute zero, and there is nothing beyond death, then you believe what you believe. That's your choice.

And obviously, if you believe that there is no God and no force out there, then you must also believe that "The entire universe and everything in it came together all by itself" - INSTEAD OF saying, "I don't know". You MUST know this - just as you KNOW that there is no afterlife and you KNOW that there is no God. According to your assessment, both these probabilities are ZERO.
We do NOT need to know. We can also be 99% confident. Or 70% confident. Or some other value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
And then you keep begging for evidence - and we start the loop again.
"It's faith. And faith is NOT based on evidence."
Yes, you do seem to have a problem understanding simple concepts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I think the crux of the problem you are facing is a classical Atheist scenario.
Cue the BS in 3 .. 2 .. 1 ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
You don't feel the need and a want, to search for God by his signs - and you don't feel the need of God's guidance in your day to day life - AND - based on your assessment of how modern day Christianity is presented in a disappointing way, you dismiss the existence of God altogether - which gives you some sort of solace to live by what's underlined above.
And there we have the classical Atheist scenario that does not actually exist.
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Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
 
Location: USA
3,291 posts, read 1,137,257 times
Reputation: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Again, if it's a game of probabilities and your logic and intelligence tells you that the probability of afterlife is an absolute zero, and there is nothing beyond death, then you believe what you believe. That's your choice.

And obviously, if you believe that there is no God and no force out there, then you must also believe that "The entire universe and everything in it came together all by itself" - INSTEAD OF saying, "I don't know". You MUST know this - just as you KNOW that there is no afterlife and you KNOW that there is no God. According to your assessment, both these probabilities are ZERO.

And then you keep begging for evidence - and we start the loop again.
"It's faith. And faith is NOT based on evidence."

I think the crux of the problem you are facing is a classical Atheist scenario.

You don't feel the need and a want, to search for God by his signs - and you don't feel the need of God's guidance in your day to day life - AND - based on your assessment of how modern day Christianity is presented in a disappointing way, you dismiss the existence of God altogether - which gives you some sort of solace to live by what's underlined above.
Belief is always a choice, of course, as is the choice to subscribe to well founded reason or unfounded assertions. There is a distinct difference between a belief in something that is based on direct evidence and observation, and the belief in something that is based entirely on imagination and assumption, however. Direct evidence and observation indicate that all living things die. The belief that life continues on after death is based entirely on imagination and assumption. It appears to be an emotional reaction to the fear of death.

Am I promoting death over life? Certainly not. I am 70 years old and in no rush to be dead. I am promoting the cause of reason over childish make believe.
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Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM
 
11,228 posts, read 4,370,318 times
Reputation: 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
This is what I have to offer the naysayers, agnostics, doubters, questioners or blamers...or just plain folks in the dark:

Gee whiz...anybody can sit and "Be still..."
I dont give people much of my care listening to their complaints about God or mysteries,
when they haven't put in a darn bit of effort....the kind of effort that works....it takes inner
conviction, discipline, deep desire, determination, steadfastness, consistency and sincerity to sit in silence
for hours and hours and hours and hours+.

Then you'll get all you want to know about any afterlife...inside is where the veils are lifted, you bozos.

Do that...put in the time...and then you will be given Insights galore into the entire workings of creation!
There will be no more wondering even about the daily happenings of losing a job, your car getting broken into...or the joys that befall you either.

Life and God are really very simple.
So simple the mind or ego wants to complicate them.
Don't fall for its trap.
Be stll and know...understand...get the whole package.

To me, you that professionally have made a career to put down God or whatever, look like children rubbing their eyes from sleep...complaining and moaning and
carrying on...when you haven't even showered or had your coffee...like big babies.

Do what needs to be done instead using the lazy man's tool...Blame and whining...ha, and at the same time
thinking what the egoic mind wants you to think , lol, that you are so clever and smarter than the other fool.
To me, the shoe's on the other foot!
yeah, BUUT, if I don't whine and blame that means I have to face down that image n the mirror. And it aint even me.
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Old Yesterday, 07:59 PM
 
37,969 posts, read 25,661,771 times
Reputation: 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is God's fault. If we don't know where the ladder leads to the blame rests solely with Him. He hasn't given us a nickel's worth of evidence what lies beyond the veil of this life. Here is where the Christians fail epically. They want us to believe that some scribblings dating to 2000 years ago from authors we don't even know their names--forget Matthew, Mark, Luke and John on this one, please!---we don't have the vaguest clue who wrote the New Testament, at least the gospels. So when Jesus is said to say, "If ye do not believe in me ye will die in your sins and go to hell" we haven't the vaguest clue whether this was Eusebius of Caesarea using his usual propaganda tactics or some punch-drunk monk drinking too much Jesus juice one night when he scrawled this out-of-the-blue thought on parchment. In short, we cannot trust the veracity of any of the stuff found in the New Testament that uses the stick of eternal torment in hell to bash us over the head to accept Jesus and get up the ladder to heaven or down to hell. It's all nonsense.

If God had wanted us to know what lies beyond this life He would have done a much better job of letting Jesus' words survive INTACT and without any doubt they originated from him, instead of the half-baked job He did of leaving what He did for us.
This whining about what God didn't do to make things easy for you, Thrill, makes about as much sense as whining because you would have to spend years practicing before you could play the piano or other instruments. Why can't you just play? For those who have trouble with Math, why does it take years of learning and using to be facile with math? Why doesn't it just come naturally? Why do we have to learn to speak, read, and write a language? Why can't we just understand and be fluent with whatever language is necessary? Those skills of language and math that help us to understand our reality must be acquired through discipline and practice just for everyday reasons. Why would you expect the skills necessary to experience and understand God to be easier????
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Old Yesterday, 08:50 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,375,292 times
Reputation: 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Belief is always a choice, of course, as is the choice to subscribe to well founded reason or unfounded assertions. There is a distinct difference between a belief in something that is based on direct evidence and observation, and the belief in something that is based entirely on imagination and assumption, however. Direct evidence and observation indicate that all living things die. The belief that life continues on after death is based entirely on imagination and assumption.It appears to be an emotional reaction to the fear of death.

Am I promoting death over life? Certainly not. I am 70 years old and in no rush to be dead. I am promoting the cause of reason over childish make believe.
“Direct evidence” vs “imagination and assumptions” - that’s a good one.

Seriously - just reread your own sentence in the bold above.

And now let’s turn the table and rephrase it

“The belief that life does *NOT* continue on after death is based entirely on imagination and assumption.”

You have a choice to either agree with it OR please provide a “direct evidence” to support your belief that life/consciousness does not continue after death.
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Old Yesterday, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,114 posts, read 7,810,801 times
Reputation: 14199
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
“The belief that life does *NOT* continue on after death is based entirely on imagination and assumption.”

You have a choice to either agree with it OR please provide a “direct evidence” to support your belief that life/consciousness does not continue after death.
How could it? Life is, by definition, ended at death. How could it continue after?

Semantic issues aside, you are inappropriately shifting the burden of proof. You are making the claim that something we have not seen, not experienced, and have no evidence for is actually true. Based on nothing, you are making a positive assertion.

The skeptical position is that we have not seen evidence that something is so, therefore it is reasonable to assume that it is not so.

Put a bit differently, there are many, many things that I can imagine. I can imagine that there is life after death, that it is a paradise, a hell, or simply an interminable never-ending existence, like the Greek Hades. I can also imagine time runs backwards after death until oblivion, that we are reborn as souls, that our individuality is obliterated and we join a universal consciousness, or that our individuality becomes transcendent and we supplant god.

None of those things has any evidence for them. None at all. Given that, why should we accept any of them? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that our consciousness is a product of our physical being, and that when our physical being stops, so does our consciousness?
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,068 posts, read 9,821,419 times
Reputation: 2451
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
And obviously, if you believe that there is no God and no force out there, then you must also believe that "The entire universe and everything in it came together all by itself" -
I don't think any atheist (or even scientists) say that.

Quote:
INSTEAD OF saying, "I don't know".
It's what most of us DO say.

Quote:
And then you keep begging for evidence - and we start the loop again.
"It's faith. And faith is NOT based on evidence."
...and that is why 'faith' is the most idiotic concept - EVER! Please tell us, in what other aspects of your everyday live do you rely on 'faith' to determine what is true or not.
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