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Old 02-21-2019, 07:12 AM
 
12,146 posts, read 4,615,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
The prediction and observation you claim I am not making is that complex, intelligent beings just existing are extremely unlikely. Ludwig Boltzmann agrees.

Another prediction (based on observation) is that your next response will also (probably) be dishonest, and not address anything I am talking about.
harry, not only do I address exactly what you said, I am accusing you of doing nothing but sticking in the confines of defining god the way you want to and telling us we are wrong when we say that this god thing may just be something else.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,771 posts, read 694,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
harry, not only do I address exactly what you said, I am accusing you of doing nothing but sticking in the confines of defining god the way you want to and telling us we are wrong when we say that this god thing may just be something else.
You proved my point. I have pointed to several definitions of different gods and demonstrated which are improbable, and which are more likely.

The constant need to misrepresent is amusing.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:01 PM
 
38,747 posts, read 26,052,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
We have the data for intelligent, complex entities. 7.2 billion pieces of data all saying intelligent, complex beings do not simply exist. As I have pointed out so many times before.
What data do you have for the probability of the existence of our Reality that has brought everything into existence because that is God until you can tell me what else it is and why you think so.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:03 PM
 
12,146 posts, read 4,615,611 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
You proved my point. I have pointed to several definitions of different gods and demonstrated which are improbable, and which are more likely.

The constant need to misrepresent is amusing.
again ... the song ... run away harry.

the simple fact is you will make up whatever you need to so that your world view is real.

lmao, you proved by definitions. too funny.

Last edited by Arach Angle; 02-21-2019 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:16 PM
 
12,146 posts, read 4,615,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
You proved my point. I have pointed to several definitions of different gods and demonstrated which are improbable, and which are more likely.

The constant need to misrepresent is amusing.
you proved my point .. your posts got nothing.

I said the theist are misrepresenting the connections people have to the life around them.

what do you say?

or are you just going to keep slogging nonsense at us?
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Old 02-23-2019, 08:05 AM
 
37,056 posts, read 9,985,117 times
Reputation: 4951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Feelings, schameelings.
And so many that say they have faith have plenty of doubt, TRANS....ask any
Christian what stops them from healing people.

I say test faith. (Christians, I mean.) See that it is a real power. (Take babysteps at first.)
I went out on a limb at first with faith...now I'm on solid ground with it...and boldly go
wherever I am asked and pray for people and they are healed, by golly...we all have so much power ..
whether one calls it Mind Power, Will Power, the Power to Create, the Power of Beliefs,
the Power of the Subconscious Mind (ha, some of these are book titles by Dr. Joseph Murphy)....whether Christian or Muslim...feelings have nothing to do with, say, healing someone or asking for
$$ to help you pay bills....you can be in a bad mood and do a healing.
Just clarifying a misconception, is all.

I check my ladders, too....took me 2 months to recover from a concussion in 2002....what a dope
to step on a rickety step ladder!!!!!!!!
Ah - the Bible saw that one coming. If you have Faith...why, you can do anything!!!

If you can't....why - you didn't have enough Faith.

Catch 21. You can't beat it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Probability does NOT mean what YOU think is most likely. Probability is data-based and you have no such data to assess the probability conclusions you make about the EXISTENCE of God.
I think you're wrong. Or at least interpreting 'data' too concretely. Probability can also be based on what we know of how the world and universe works. This is why we can estimate the probability of life in the universe apart from here (even with the lowest 'rare earth' estimates it is a handful of planets just in this galaxy), the probability of religious demographics over the next couple of decades - and the probability of a complex intelligent cosmic being that didn't need to come from anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What data do you have for the probability of the existence of our Reality that has brought everything into existence because that is God until you can tell me what else it is and why you think so.
Since we are here, it's 1/1, isn't it? I suppose one could say 1/2 (we are either here are we aren't). But what probability do you assign and what is you data for basing that probability on?

But I can see where this is going. rare earth, really. What are the chances? Mystic, what are the chances of you and me sitting here, warm, well off, fed and healthy arguing about myths rather than you being a a Babylonian kid having it's head smashed against a brick wall, or me a Chinese peasant being burned alive by Tai -Ping soldiery? Huge odds against - but here we are. Somebody had to be.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-23-2019 at 08:18 AM..
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Old 02-23-2019, 08:22 AM
 
37,056 posts, read 9,985,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
The prediction and observation you claim I am not making is that complex, intelligent beings just existing are extremely unlikely. Ludwig Boltzmann agrees.

Another prediction (based on observation) is that your next response will also (probably) be dishonest, and not address anything I am talking about.
Three predictable Housemens - Death, taxes and Arach peddling his 'The Hills are alive' hypothesis. Next stop 'Cosmic Mind', and at last he can stop embarrassing us by calling himself an atheist.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:09 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,550 posts, read 4,552,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Evidence for what? I gave an example of a belief without evidence that we all hold, to show that we all hold beliefs without evidence. That's it.
It is not evidence of the accuracy of the belief that everyone holds beliefs without evidence.
And there is "evidence" for everything. Just because there cannot be evidence against a hidden negative does not mean that a hidden negative has to even be considered as requiring evidence.
Quote:
Well that's why I didn't put "good reason" in quotations, as you have done. I think there's a such thing as objectively good reasons for belief, and those who have them are not being irrational.
But that is why I put "good reason" in quotations, unlike you. I think that peoples "good reasons" don't always match upon even if we often strive for them to. What are you "objectively" good reasons for belief, and what beliefs are they?

Of course, if you define belief X as having an objectively good reason, then it would (by your definition) not be "irrational" to hold it.

I don't think it is irrational to deny the Matrix even though it is purported to give you life in some hidden way.
Quote:
As I explained, evidentialism (this being the view that one should only believe statements when there is evidence in favor of them) cannot itself be supported with evidence.
But your argumentionalism should support itself with arguments?
Or philosophising with philosophy?

What exactly is your beef against weighing the evidence as the higher standard?
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:09 PM
 
38,747 posts, read 26,052,874 times
Reputation: 5950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
it's not even that mystic. they cop out don't make any predictions on what we see going on. all they do is deny everything because they were indoctrinated into following the dogmatic looking base faith claim of "deny everything so people can't form beliefs that make atheism harder to sell." they don't offer any counterclaims and test to see if their counterclaims match observation.

atheist that are defined by a statement of belief about god. and they think it's our problem ...lmao

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Probability does NOT mean what YOU think is most likely. Probability is data-based and you have no such data to assess the probability conclusions you make about the EXISTENCE of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I think you're wrong. Or at least interpreting 'data' too concretely. Probability can also be based on what we know of how the world and universe works. This is why we can estimate the probability of life in the universe apart from here (even with the lowest 'rare earth' estimates it is a handful of planets just in this galaxy), the probability of religious demographics over the next couple of decades - and the probability of a complex intelligent cosmic being that didn't need to come from anywhere.
Estimates are not data, they are supposed to be based on data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What data do you have for the probability of the existence of our Reality that has brought everything into existence because that is God until you can tell me what else it is and why you think so.
Quote:
Since we are here, it's 1/1, isn't it?
Yes, so that is the probability that God exists.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:33 PM
 
37,056 posts, read 9,985,117 times
Reputation: 4951
Estimates of the probability of life are based on data. The amount of biochemicals in the universe, the number of stars, how likely they are to have plantes, how many of them might be Earthlike or at least not hostile to life, the probability of life evolving in suitable conditions. It isn't data istself, and is only a debate about probabilities. But it is more than just Guesses.

Given the plausibility of naturally evolving Life, a universe made by natural forces and the problems with a complex being that was either created by nothing for no reason Or has always existed, the probability for an Intelligent creative being is not on the plus -side.
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