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Old 01-27-2019, 09:04 AM
 
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I don't understand why certain question are only posed to Theists. They are valid questions which could just as easily have been asked of Atheists in some modified fashion.

Last edited by OzzyRules; 01-27-2019 at 09:19 AM..
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Old 01-27-2019, 09:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post

You raised the issue in a thread you started in the Religion and Spirituality forum. In fact, you said it was a "fundamental question of “what or who started it all?" If you think it is a fundamental question, it must be important to you. So, if it is important to you, I thought maybe you could tell us why it is important, or how it affects your daily life, or, in context of this forum, how it affects your religion or spirituality. It didn't seem weird to me. It seemed like a logical follow up to your post.
I think curiosity comes natural to many humans. And perhaps it's not only me who ponders upon the question of who started it all?
Perhaps many scientists, philosophers, academicians and people in general may have this curiosity coming to them naturally?

The rest of your question was perhaps answered in post #99
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Old 01-27-2019, 09:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Who creates snowflakes? Snow pixies? Or is the better question, "what created* those blood cells"?

* We have no evidence they were designed.
So you don't see any design in the structure of the blood cells?
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:05 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So you don't see any design in the structure of the blood cells?
we do GoC. the word "homeostasis" fits what we see for now. "life" is the most logical conclusion for now. Its just not a god thing as many people teach.

If we take it one step further, we can apply 'alive". Its, at least, not unreasonable.

so why do we need a god thing as taught? why couldn't this god thing just be different than those people thought so long ago?
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,469 posts, read 24,054,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
I don't understand why certain question are only posed to Theists. They are valid questions which could just as easily have been asked of Atheists in some modified fashion.
I wasn't aware that you've been stopped from asking any questions (unless you broke forum rules).
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post

Where I disagree with you entirely is in your treatment of evidence in Islam. Pretty much all of the studies of the Qur'an that I've seen define the word 'sign' as follows "tested evidence, absolute knowledge and expression of truth".

Not only that but the Scripture itself is considered to be evidence.
understanding, knowledge, and further proof (how far people allow this exploration to take them is another matter). It values intelligence and education, which is why there was such a burst of scientific inquiry in the early days of classical Islam.
Yeah, this is somewhat debatable and could be stretched into various directions.

I am absolutely no authority on Qur'an and I dare not extract any meanings of the versus out of my own interpretation.


IMO, for a person who is already a Muslim and has a firm belief in the truthfulness of Islamic faith, the "evidences" and/or "miracles" (whichever term you prefer) are sufficient enough for him.

However, perhaps none of these "evidences and miracles" wouldn't mean much to an Atheists who already believes that there is no God.

They get shelter under the premise of demanding an evidence and a proof that God exists.

And in matters of religious faith, proof and evidence is usually subjective.

For one person, Qur'an is an evidence of God, but someone else may publicly burn it to express his remorse.

So what's an "evidence and/or a proof" to YOU may be meaningless to others.

My discussion on this forum usually revolves NOT around any specific faith but it's usually about whether God exists or not?

So far as proof and evidences go in theology,
IMO, if there was a "verifiable, quantifiable, repeatable, observable, tangle, undeniable (as the atheists put it) evidence of God to the liking and satisfaction of us all 7 billion people then perhaps there wouldn't be any atheists left in the world

- and the reciprocal also stands.

If there was a "verifiable, quantifiable, repeatable, observable, tangle, undeniable (as the atheists put it) evidence to the liking and satisfaction of us all 7 billion people that God does NOT exist then perhaps there wouldn't be any believers left in the world.

Heck, 7 billion can't even agree as to what and who God is, what kind of evidences and proofs are we talking about?

IMO, one does his research to find God by his signs. He uses his logic and intelligence to analyze the signs to either accept or reject them. This practice usually helps him find what talks to his heart, and he forms his faith. And these signs become the kind of evidences that satisfies him. The same evidences could mean nothing to others.

And as I always say, we should make wise choices because in the end, we will be likely responsible for our choices.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:55 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,068,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
we do GoC. the word "homeostasis" fits what we see for now. "life" is the most logical conclusion for now. Its just not a god thing as many people teach.

If we take it one step further, we can apply 'alive". Its, at least, not unreasonable.

so why do we need a god thing as taught? why couldn't this god thing just be different than those people thought so long ago?
I think I lost you. What exactly are we trying to answer here?
I asked for a couple of examples in post #117 . Lets not derail from our discussion, and resume it from there.
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:12 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,815,749 times
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I wasn't aware that you've been stopped from asking any questions (unless you broke forum rules).
Trust me, I ask plenty of questions that are never sufficiently answered. But I have chosen to stay out of certain areas.
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:13 AM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,004,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Yeah, this is somewhat debatable and could be stretched into various directions.

I am absolutely no authority on Qur'an and I dare not extract any meanings of the versus out of my own interpretation.


IMO, for a person who is already a Muslim and has a firm belief in the truthfulness of Islamic faith, the "evidences" and/or "miracles" (whichever term you prefer) are sufficient enough for him.

However, perhaps none of these "evidences and miracles" wouldn't mean much to an Atheists who already believes that there is no God.

They get shelter under the premise of demanding an evidence and a proof that God exists.

And in matters of religious faith, proof and evidence is usually subjective.
In all other matters proof and evidence are objective. Why does religious faith get to play by different rules simply because it cannot match the requirements of any other human endeavor?

Quote:
For one person, Qur'an is an evidence of God, but someone else may publicly burn it to express his remorse.

So what's an "evidence and/or a proof" to YOU may be meaningless to others.
Or the Bible, or any other holy book or tradition. Doesn't this indicate that the level of evidence and proof accepted by religious people is lacking in rigor?


Quote:
And as I always say, we should make wise choices because in the end, we will be likely responsible for our choices.
Interesting. A day or so ago you posted 5 qualities of god as you perceive it. None of those qualities implied we would be responsible for our choices in the end. Is there a 6th quality?
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:17 AM
 
63,570 posts, read 39,862,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I wouldn't presume to answer for GoC, but it made a tremendous difference in my life. It is, for the most part, a very pragmatic question that impacts the context for life itself. The context is either one of meaningless accidental existence or one of purposeful existence toward some goal for existence itself. The implications from the opposing contexts are legion, but if you do not care which context is true then it probably has little impact on those things you asked about. IF it doesn't matter to you, you can establish your own personal criteria and goals for your life without any concern for the actual context.

Resolving this question of context can seem irrelevant when we don't know which context is true. It also can be quite arbitrary even when you think there is a purpose for existence because finding out the purpose is problematic. Human imagination and speculation have created myriad versions of a purpose for existence itself that are flawed and even irrational making any resolution difficult. So in the end, it comes down to how comfortable we are with not knowing the actual context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Well, it appeared from this post that how the Universe started was pretty important to you and your belief.
I don't know why you thought it was a weird question to ask.
You raised the issue in a thread you started in the Religion and Spirituality forum. In fact, you said it was a "fundamental question of “what or who started it all?" If you think it is a fundamental question, it must be important to you. So, if it is important to you, I thought maybe you could tell us why it is important, or how it affects your daily life, or, in context of this forum, how it affects your religion or spirituality. It didn't seem weird to me. It seemed like a logical follow up to your post.
The very existence of religion and spirituality rests on the choice of the context for existence itself as is outlined above.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 01-27-2019 at 12:45 PM..
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