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The above-boldfaced comment made me think of something I came across on the web somewhat recently. That is, I stumbled across a quote from the late scientist and prolific author Isaac Asimov (about death and reflecting on the probability, in his mind, that there may be no so-called “afterlife”). He said:
"What could be better, after a long life, than an endless, dreamless sleep?"
I'm not asserting here, in definitive or absolute terms, that there is or isn't an "afteflife" by whatever definition (I don't claim knowledge about this pro or con). His statement just made me think to myself:
"You know, to know that, at the end of your lifespan, your brain-mind-spirit will be 'blank' (i.e., non-existent) and hence there will be no more struggles, worries, concerns, fears, boredom, the continual need to sustain yourself and possibly others in life, the continual need to keep yourself preoccupied meaningfully, the challenges of living life overall, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. will all be over and you are finally in a permanent state of rest (free of all concerns and struggles) . . . . . . . . THIS can actually be a calming and relaxing thought (or at least to some of us). Do you all reallyreallyreallyreally want to live FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER without end??? What will you do forever and ever and ever without end? I and some others (even yourself, possibly?) might actually find that you'd welcome simple extinction or expiration of body/mind/spirit after whatever passage of time . . . instead of living forever and ever in what OTHERS have labeled a 'paradise' (or 'heaven'). Would I myself actually experience it as being a 'paradise'-like way of existance to my own discernment? Maybe God has labeled it as a 'paradise' or 'heaven' from His own perspective but any of us might come to feel otherwise if we actually experienced it over whatever stretch of time and may actually come to welcome an 'endless dreamless sleep' instead of eternal existence."
Just "food-for-thought" to ponder.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion--just as I am. In my case I consider the endless sleep of total annihilation just as bad as a fiery hell. So I reject both.
Your point is that even the living conditions of Heaven would be boring. But I know that I would always find meaningful activities to engage in. Even here on Earth I never feel bored at all. I don't have to escape into fantasy. I don't have to escape into movies. Because Reality satisfies enough.
Just as I scoff at the idea of hell, so do I also scoff at the idea of heaven where there is no pain at all. Because I believe pain is sometimes necessary. It's part of what makes us human. Because when I see another human suffer, it gives me an opportunity to help that person.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion--just as I am. In my case I consider the endless sleep of total annihilation just as bad as a fiery hell. So I reject both.
Your point is that even the living conditions of Heaven would be boring. But I know that I would always find meaningful activities to engage in. Even here on Earth I never feel bored at all. I don't have to escape into fantasy. I don't have to escape into movies. Because Reality satisfies enough.
Just as I scoff at the idea of hell, so do I also scoff at the idea of heaven where there is no pain at all. Because I believe pain is sometimes necessary. It's part of what makes us human. Because when I see another human suffer, it gives me an opportunity to help that person.
Since the meek will inherit the Earth, then Heaven is Not first choice.- Psalm 37:9-11; John 3:13
Only those like those of Luke 22:28-30 are called to heaven.- Rev. 20:6
They have two (2) jobs to do according to Rev. 5:9-10
They will serve mankind living on Earth:
* They will be '' kings ' in the sense of taking care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth.
* They will be ' priests ' in the sense of taking care of spiritual duties towards people of Earth.
I too like terra firma, and do Not feel bored, and I never seem to tire of seeing the people I love to be with.
As far as No pain in heaven, there is also No crime, No violence, No pollution, so we are praying for those same good heavenly conditions to come and exist right here on Earth.
That is a reason why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the benefit of ' healing ' to earth's nations as mentioned at Rev. 22:2 and the 35th chapter of Isaiah.
Mankind will finally see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth again for the healing of earth's nations.
Right now we are all to be like that neighborly good Samaritan and broaden out, widen out, in showing practical love for someone at their time of distress.
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I'm a little intrigued by the few people who have reported to have gone to "Hell" in a near death/clinical death experience.
Their stories seem so very similar, including the overwhelming stench, although they may not have known before the experience that others had included that in their experience of "Hell".
Heat, stink and rage from a devil or beast seem to be the pattern.
Gives me pause.
As similar as most of the "Heaven" after clinical death experiences are, there is a similarity between the experiences of an apparent "Hell".
I'm a little intrigued by the few people who have reported to have gone to "Hell" in a near death/clinical death experience.
Their stories seem so very similar, including the overwhelming stench, although they may not have known before the experience that others had included that in their experience of "Hell".
Heat, stink and rage from a devil or beast seem to be the pattern.
Gives me pause.
As similar as most of the "Heaven" after clinical death experiences are, there is a similarity between the experiences of an apparent "Hell".
There certainly is.
And this is what should scare the hell out of most people, pardon the pun.
The above-boldfaced comment made me think of something I came across on the web somewhat recently. That is, I stumbled across a quote from the late scientist and prolific author Isaac Asimov (about death and reflecting on the probability, in his mind, that there may be no so-called “afterlife”). He said:
"What could be better, after a long life, than an endless, dreamless sleep?"
I'm not asserting here, in definitive or absolute terms, that there is or isn't an "afteflife" by whatever definition (I don't claim knowledge about this pro or con). His statement just made me think to myself:
"You know, to know that, at the end of your lifespan, your brain-mind-spirit will be 'blank' (i.e., non-existent) and hence there will be no more struggles, worries, concerns, fears, boredom, the continual need to sustain yourself and possibly others in life, the continual need to keep yourself preoccupied meaningfully, the challenges of living life overall, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. will all be over and you are finally in a permanent state of rest (free of all concerns and struggles) . . . . . . . . THIS can actually be a calming and relaxing thought (or at least to some of us). Do you all reallyreallyreallyreally want to live FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER without end??? What will you do forever and ever and ever without end? I and some others (even yourself, possibly?) might actually find that you'd welcome simple extinction or expiration of body/mind/spirit after whatever passage of time . . . instead of living forever and ever in what OTHERS have labeled a 'paradise' (or 'heaven'). Would I myself actually experience it as being a 'paradise'-like way of existance to my own discernment? Maybe God has labeled it as a 'paradise' or 'heaven' from His own perspective but any of us might come to feel otherwise if we actually experienced it over whatever stretch of time and may actually come to welcome an 'endless dreamless sleep' instead of eternal existence."
Just "food-for-thought" to ponder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555
You are certainly entitled to your opinion--just as I am. In my case I consider the endless sleep of total annihilation just as bad as a fiery hell. So I reject both.
Your point is that even the living conditions of Heaven would be boring. But I know that I would always find meaningful activities to engage in. Even here on Earth I never feel bored at all. I don't have to escape into fantasy. I don't have to escape into movies. Because Reality satisfies enough.
Just as I scoff at the idea of hell, so do I also scoff at the idea of heaven where there is no pain at all. Because I believe pain is sometimes necessary. It's part of what makes us human. Because when I see another human suffer, it gives me an opportunity to help that person.
I myself never ever ever get bored in this life (absolutely never); like yourself, reality satisfies me just fine (every single day of my life). I was thinking of OTHERS amongst the masses of humanity throughout the ages who DO have an inclination to get bored (or so they proclaim).
You stated "I know that I would always find meaningful activities to engage in" (i.e., in Heaven). Yet, assuming there even is a so-called "heaven", none of us truly truly knows what it would entail, what freedoms we would have (if any), what restrictions or limits we would have (if any), if certain duties or tasks or activities are mandated to us by God during our eternal time in heaven (and what exactly they are), and myriad other questions. It appears as though Heaven is never really defined to us or for us in any tangible way but rather left very amorphous and vague . . . so no one really has a clue about what exactly it would entail. You say ""I know that I would always find meaningful activities to engage in" but you don't know that you will even be given the liberties to engage in some things yet not other things or even in any freely-chosen activities at all. For all heaven's inhabitants know, they may be made to spend ALL their time eternally heaping praise and adoration on God (and THAT is what God may consider to be "heaven" from his own perspective). It may be "heaven" for Him but will it be "heaven" for you and everyone else? It might come to feel kind of like a cosmic North Korea (a term I've heard Christopher Hitchens use).
The point is: Even entertaining the possibility that there IS a "heaven", who knows what it entails and then doesn't entail, what you can do or not do there, what form you will be in, what capabilities you have or don't have, what liberties you have or don't have, what limits or restrictions you have or don't have, and so on and so on and so on??? These aren't "opinions" on my part that I hold to; they are merely mental pontifications (questions without any truly available answers) . . . for that is all we truly have to go on. I ask myself "Would it really be so terrible, even after a rather long passage of time of your choosing, to have the option of simply being painlessly and non-traumatically "turned off" (just like going to sleep peacefully and being oblivous to the world while asleep . . . like we are when we are in the non-dreaming state of sleep known as the "non-REM sleep stage")? We wouldn't know the difference (analogous to the times in life that I've undergone surgery a number of times and, under full anesthetic, I was utterly oblivious to what was transpiring . . . as though I was dead). A trillion years could have past or an eternity could have passed and I wouldn't have known the difference. It sounds like Isaac Asimov's notion of an "endless dreamless sleep" (as he phrased it).
Another question that occurs to me is: If we can't fit with and get along with everyone we encounter in this life that we have right now (even, at times, when limiting ourselves to only consorting with our fellow believers . . . and, by the way, I was a Christian believer, adherent and practitioner myself), so all who go to heaven, in contrast with this present life of ours, are ALL going to magically fit perfectly with one another and be in perfect harmony with one another? How and why? That is, would God alter the basic natures and makeup of all of Heaven's to-be inhabitants beforehand (i.e., to alter how we are each constituted) to make us all fit perfectly with one another? If so, then, if He is wiling to do this for the sake of Heaven, why can't He do so for all of us while we are living in THIS existence that we are in right now? The point is: If all entering heaven are left to their own devices (i.e., without God altering them as just described earlier), would they ALL naturally be in perfect harmony with one another and hence have no discord, no conflicts or disagreements, no ill temperaments, no hostilities, and so on with one another? Or will God have to alter each of us to make (to force) us to be this way? And if He is willing to make (to force) us to be this way, then why can't He do so and why hasn't He done so while we are all alive in this present life?
Questions, questions, questions . . . for which there are really no answers (i.e., no true provable epistemologically-derived answers) . . . . . . . . . . for we don't even know that there really is a so-called heaven (or hell) in the first place (or even if there is a god of whatever type in the first place) and, even if there IS a so-called "heaven", what it would really really entail and then not entail. Anything that anyone can assert about the matter is purely a faith stance on their part.
I just hope God changes his mind here, and that those with no hope and cannot escape from Hell, do get a 2nd chance.
This man saw all his friends there.
I believe it. When you hear the same story over and over, I give it credibility. It is worth noting that nearly ALL the life after death accounts are positive, not negative.
If dozens of people told you that they had fairies at the bottom of their garden, would you believe that too? If thousands of Hindus told you that they had seen Ganesh, would you believe that too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
I'm a little intrigued by the few people who have reported to have gone to "Hell" in a near death/clinical death experience.
Their stories seem so very similar, including the overwhelming stench, although they may not have known before the experience that others had included that in their experience of "Hell".
Heat, stink and rage from a devil or beast seem to be the pattern.
Well they would be the same, because they all have the images of 'hell' in their heads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41
I just hope God changes his mind here, and that those with no hope and cannot escape from Hell, do get a 2nd chance.
This man saw all his friends there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
If dozens of people told you that they had fairies at the bottom of their garden, would you believe that too? If thousands of Hindus told you that they had seen Ganesh, would you believe that too?
Well they would be the same, because they all have the images of 'hell' in their heads.
Um. In a word, yes. I tend to believe people who are sincerely telling me what they've experienced. You do have to filter out people who seem crazy or who are telling you lies, like the girls in England who convinced the nation they saw fairies. Or the girls in Salem who saw witches.
There are things people experience, that seem kind of universal and they've been derided.
Like heart ache. It's a real thing. When people say "it makes my heart hurt", that comes from a true thing, where your heart actually aches. Turns out, it comes from some kind of adrenaline/cortisol reaction and it's a real thing.
Women have, from time immemorial, said after several pregnancies they can tell the gender of the baby they're carrying, this one's a girl. People scoffed, the medical community said well, yeah, 50% of the time you're right, huh huh huh. Turns out, it's true. Women carrying boys have a significant increase in testosterone during their pregnancy, something they can definitely feel. Hm. Who knew? They're not ALL lying.
I could go on and on.
Here's the thing. When someone tells me something, or I read an account of something that seems out of the ordinary, I don't automatically dismiss it as a crazy rant or a liar, or both.
I tuck it away because maybe, I'll hear that story again, from someone else. Maybe somewhere down the road it will make sense.
So yes. When I hear people in near death experiences describe Heaven in very similar ways, or Hell in very similar ways EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT BEEN EXPOSED to those concepts before, I'm inclined to believe them. Or at the very least, not shout LIAR or FOOL at them.
edited to add: I would recommend you take a deep dive into people who say they've experienced heaven or hell. You may not be aware that there are people across the globe, throughout time who have these experiences, and many of them had no prior concept of those ideas.
So yes. When I hear people in near death experiences describe Heaven in very similar ways, or Hell in very similar ways EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT BEEN EXPOSED to those concepts before, I'm inclined to believe them.
Listen. I've got a plot of land here going really cheap!
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