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Old 06-17-2019, 12:29 AM
 
11,237 posts, read 11,259,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
And you find this remotely credible, Thrill? We can believe that the Bible CONTAINS inspirations imperfectly interpreted by fallible humans without pretending that everything in it is inspired or even correctly interpreted. There would be no need for us to "study to show ourselves approved" if we were to thoughtlessly and mindlessly accept everything at face value or as literal.

Mystic, what you and I personally believe is entirely irrelevant to the issue. Nobody gives a damn about what Thrillobyte believes about Revelations. But in the larger picture hundreds of millions of Christian fundamentalists believe the Bible to be the literal, Holy Spirit-breathed word of God--written as though God Himself spoke every single word in the text. That's what hundreds of millions of Christians believe. You may believe Revelation 14:10-11 is nonsense; I may believe it's nonsense, but we're fighting an army the size of a population of China and we cannot win a war against a population that immense. So far as I'm concerned I can reject it out of hand as complete poppycock, but in the bigger picture I have to respect the fact that 1/3 of the world's population, give or take, believes that people will literally burn in a lake of fire for eternity because that's what they've been taught and they haven't got a dime's worth of discernment between what's real and what's fake.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:17 AM
 
40,051 posts, read 26,730,521 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Mystic, what you and I personally believe is entirely irrelevant to the issue. Nobody gives a damn about what Thrillobyte believes about Revelations. But in the larger picture hundreds of millions of Christian fundamentalists believe the Bible to be the literal, Holy Spirit-breathed word of God--written as though God Himself spoke every single word in the text. That's what hundreds of millions of Christians believe. You may believe Revelation 14:10-11 is nonsense; I may believe it's nonsense, but we're fighting an army the size of a population of China and we cannot win a war against a population that immense. So far as I'm concerned I can reject it out of hand as complete poppycock, but in the bigger picture I have to respect the fact that 1/3 of the world's population, give or take, believes that people will literally burn in a lake of fire for eternity because that's what they've been taught and they haven't got a dime's worth of discernment between what's real and what's fake.
I understand and agree, Thrill. It is a major problem as the last two posts reveal. Carry on.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:35 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,740 posts, read 1,864,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
One can't help wondering why your Jesus doesn't tell us himself and thus end all doubt!

Most dismiss it because of the lack of evidence.

It invents it.

So the omnimax creator of the universe and all in it is forced to do what he doesn't want to do? LMAO!
I often wonder myself why the Lord won't stop the damned going to Hell, or negotiate with them in any way, and then states "it is too late".
One must suppose that what we regard as just, and "a fair trial", does not exist on the other side.
And then send these souls off to a level of punishment far beyond our wildest dreams, with the pain and suffering more intense and more horrific, than that which anyone could inflict to us here on earth.
Even the worst criminals in history could not mete out that level of torture and misery.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:49 PM
 
11,237 posts, read 11,259,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
I often wonder myself why the Lord won't stop the damned going to Hell, or negotiate with them in any way, and then states "it is too late".
One must suppose that what we regard as just, and "a fair trial", does not exist on the other side.
And then send these souls off to a level of punishment far beyond our wildest dreams, with the pain and suffering more intense and more horrific, than that which anyone could inflict to us here on earth.
Even the worst criminals in history could not mete out that level of torture and misery.

Derek, the WHOLE concept of going to hell for making the wrong choice in this life was deliberated concocted by the early Roman Catholic Church to scare people into becoming Christian NOW--today! If you give them a second chance AFTER death it defeats the whole purpose of trying to get them to join Christianity today and pay tithes to enrich the bishops and cardinals in this life. The whole con is to get stupid gullible people in this life to fork over their dough to the church NOW, not after they're dead. I am baffled that so many people haven't the insight to see through this charade.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:04 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,740 posts, read 1,864,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Derek, the WHOLE concept of going to hell for making the wrong choice in this life was deliberated concocted by the early Roman Catholic Church to scare people into becoming Christian NOW--today! If you give them a second chance AFTER death it defeats the whole purpose of trying to get them to join Christianity today and pay tithes to enrich the bishops and cardinals in this life. The whole con is to get stupid gullible people in this life to fork over their dough to the church NOW, not after they're dead. I am baffled that so many people haven't the insight to see through this charade.
The Catholic Church often gets accused of inventing the concept of Hell, maybe they did, maybe they didn't.
In recent times they have backed away on it though, and even Pope Francis has stated "there is no Hell", much to the ire of the Evangelicals and Bible Fundamentalists.
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:11 PM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,529,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
I often wonder myself why the Lord won't stop the damned going to Hell, or negotiate with them in any way, and then states "it is too late".
One must suppose that what we regard as just, and "a fair trial", does not exist on the other side.
And then send these souls off to a level of punishment far beyond our wildest dreams, with the pain and suffering more intense and more horrific, than that which anyone could inflict to us here on earth.
Even the worst criminals in history could not mete out that level of torture and misery.
Even under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law justice was equal value.
Even for sinner Adam there was No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for dead Adam - just dust - Gen. 3:19.
Adam was a living soul, Adam did Not posses a separate soul. Adam did Not have a soul but was a soul.
At death, Adam became a dead soul, or a life-less soul. - Acts 3:23

None of the damned go to any hell ( biblical hell or a religious-myth hell just taught as being Scripture )
Righteous Jesus was Not damned when dead Jesus went to biblical hell - Acts 2:27
Rather, as Jesus and the OT teach the dead are in an unconscious sleep-like state.
( Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14 )
So, all of the dead are Not in pain, nor in bliss, but just sleeping until being resurrected - Acts 24:15
There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous.
As for the ' damned ' they will be destroyed, or as Psalm 92:7 says the wicked will be: destroyed forever.
As for biblical hell (grave) everyone in hell will be ' delivered up ' ( meaning resurrected out of hell ), then emptied-out hell will be cast into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell - Rev. 20:13-14.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:50 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,740 posts, read 1,864,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Even under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law justice was equal value.
Even for sinner Adam there was No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for dead Adam - just dust - Gen. 3:19.
Adam was a living soul, Adam did Not posses a separate soul. Adam did Not have a soul but was a soul.
At death, Adam became a dead soul, or a life-less soul. - Acts 3:23

None of the damned go to any hell ( biblical hell or a religious-myth hell just taught as being Scripture )
Righteous Jesus was Not damned when dead Jesus went to biblical hell - Acts 2:27
Rather, as Jesus and the OT teach the dead are in an unconscious sleep-like state.
( Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14 )
So, all of the dead are Not in pain, nor in bliss, but just sleeping until being resurrected - Acts 24:15
There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous.
As for the ' damned ' they will be destroyed, or as Psalm 92:7 says the wicked will be: destroyed forever.
As for biblical hell (grave) everyone in hell will be ' delivered up ' ( meaning resurrected out of hell ), then emptied-out hell will be cast into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell - Rev. 20:13-14.
The Annihilation viewpoint on Hell is something that I have never been able to get my head around.
Certain Christian groups, such as SDA's advocate this theology.
But there are verses in the Bible that are just too damning (no pun intended), to indicate one ceases to exist.
I have always been taught that the soul is immortal and eternal, so whatever happens afterwards (good, bad or indifferent), we will all be fully aware of.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,794 posts, read 4,966,211 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Matthew, we have to get past, " They will be tormented with burning sulfur ... 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. They will have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image." Revelation 14:10-11


They are burning and as they burn their bodies throw off smoke the way a piece of wood does. But this "wood" in the form of a resurrected body which is eternal will "smoke forever and ever" signifying that their bodies will burn forever and ever. Revelation makes it clear beyond dispute that some people will burn consciously for eternity because they will never have rest--that's exactly what the verse says--and in their burning their spiritual bodies will throw off smoke forever.
Dude your mentality is of a religion you neither studied or knew, just like me, how could we have been so brainwashed and so wrong to think I or you were in the original Christianity?

I was not, and I spent decades studying from the knowledge falsley indwelled within me that that I was the same as the original Christians, and while I do honestly love you, you are forever stuck in preconcieved ideas constructed from Racism, anti Semitism, and you have never been offered an honest view of what is.

Do you you know that husbands and wifes gave up houses and livelyhoods to follow Christ and to live common with their own people? Now you compare and present modern Christians in a different religion than were the originals, and believe you me, I can understand your destain and righteous judgement bro, I really can.

But what you are against is modern Christianity, you are NEVER talking about the Original Ganstas form those first converts to Judaism.

You have a problem with Christians, not original Christians in a different religion than what you are alwasy debating.

Because a person can never understand what the truth is until he has given everything up, that person, he realizes the Earth is his. People have money in they pockets, they own cars, I say,'' Own,'' but nothing belongs to them Thrill, nothing.

They have these things, those cars, that money, but it doesn't belong to them, believe it or not, one can choose to be the king of the world, and through forsaking all ambition and giving up your will to God where treasures are the last thing you desire, you own the world.

It is your world, so you understand?

Millions of people go about life with plans, they buy cars and houses and accumilate wealth.

All that belongs to me Thrill. I pray to bearly make it by because as not to bedome prideful.

But the truth is, if I should choose to be rich, there is no holding this back.

That is a fact.

But so I wanna be rich?

Money is a God Thrill, it changes a person and their ambitions, and if I God is real, then my ambitions are real.

I simply want to please God, and to be in some fairy tale world where God has no authorty to move money around is silly, but does God want his followere filled with power and wealth, or does God want his followers to suffer, to struggle in proving themselves?

Proving oneslelf is more valuable that gems, and diamonds, to become he refined in gold through struggle, this is what God creates.

I literaly own this world, it is mine.

Not only this, this world was created for me.

Because I have been given authority over this world, actually, You may call me ,'' Thrill.''

I am againts the norm, I give up everything and so I own everything and tne world loves ask something from the world, amything.

It's easy to inherit the world, you just have to give up everything.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 06-17-2019 at 07:40 PM..
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:22 PM
 
11,237 posts, read 11,259,675 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
The Annihilation viewpoint on Hell is something that I have never been able to get my head around.
Certain Christian groups, such as SDA's advocate this theology.
But there are verses in the Bible that are just too damning (no pun intended), to indicate one ceases to exist.
I have always been taught that the soul is immortal and eternal, so whatever happens afterwards (good, bad or indifferent), we will all be fully aware of.

The soul is not immortal, Derek. Jesus said:


"Fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell" Matthew 10:28
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,958 posts, read 22,109,113 times
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Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
Do you think that the Afterlife has a literal Hell? By that I mean the Hell as taught by Islamics and Christians, that is, an actual place where people are burning in fire, tortured for all Eternity.
No I don't.

Quote:
I believe the wicked should be punished. But why for*all eternity? That would be the height of Cruelty. Should they not get a chance to redeem themselves? According to those Bible-teachings, what disturbs me is that the torture will be eternal.
I'm one of those "heretics" who believes that God will grant us greater understanding of His Plan during the period between our death and our resurrection, and that many teachings which people may reject during this mortal life will make a lot more sense when not seen "through a glass darkly" as is the case now. I believe that acceptance of Jesus Christ's Atonement and repentance of one's sins (even if during the post-mortal interim between death and the last judgment) will be essential for all, but I also believe that all but a very, very tiny minority of all those who ever lived will ultimately come to accept Christ's sacrifice on their behalf and desire to be reconciled to God. Those who don't, in other words, those who actually choose to separate themselves from God for eternity will be allowed to do so. IMO, that would be "hell."
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