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Thank you. I missed it on my first read. Actually, the Church really didn't say that "it cannot stem the tide of dead baptized in its own temples," even though that's what it is quoted as having said. Actually, I don't think we want to stem that tide. It's an integral part of our theology and we do it because we believe it to be important. While it's true that it would be impossible for the Church to police its members to the degree some people would like to see happen, I think we're actually doing a very good job. As the link to the article I first posted (in Post #20) says, "Rabbi Gary Greenebaum, the former national director of interreligious affairs at the American Jewish Committee, watches the LDS database on behalf of the World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors. He has asked church leaders to regularly remind Mormons about the church policy.
He defended the LDS Church, saying the number of names found by Radkey "are infinitesimal" in scope, that the church has "an astonishingly good record" and that the process he oversees is working.
"As somebody who's been involved at this level for many years," Greenebaum said, "I find it sort of extraordinary that someone is still wanting to say that the church is not acting in good faith, because I think it is acting in extraordinarily good faith."
Greenebaum has been watching the church for more than a dozen years at the request of the late Ernest Michel, an Auschwitz survivor who worked on the 1995 agreement. The LDS Church sends Greenebaum a monthly report on submissions of Holocaust victims and updates him on how each case is resolved."
There is only one Christian Bible. There is no 'regular' Bible and a 'Mormon Bible'. There is nothing in the Bible about spirits that need to be born to have an earthy experience to continue to progress eternally to Godhood. There is nothing that says it is a duty to provide the way for these spirits to be able to do this by having as many children as possible.
I was referring to the part of your post where you said, "the punishment is explained as being damned'. Considering all the blood and gore and damnation in the OT, I don't see it something to be criticized in the Mormon religion.
Since we believe that baptism by immersion, performed by someone holding the Aaronic priesthood is essential to eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom, a person who does not receive this baptism (either during mortality or later on by accepting a proxy baptism) would likely go to the Terrestrial Kingdom. .
Those who do not get Baptized on earth but do after death go to the Terrestrial Kingdom.
I was referring to the part of your post where you said, "the punishment is explained as being damned'. Considering all the blood and gore and damnation in the OT, I don't see it something to be criticized in the Mormon religion.
I didn't criticize anything. I merely said one reason Mormons have lots of children. And your specific question was how that differs from the Bible. The Bible does not damn us for failing to be vessels for spirits to come and have their earthly experience, that is paramount to their eternal progression.
Thank you. I missed it on my first read. Actually, the Church really didn't say that "it cannot stem the tide of dead baptized in its own temples," even though that's what it is quoted as having said. Actually, I don't think we want to stem that tide. It's an integral part of our theology and we do it because we believe it to be important. While it's true that it would be impossible for the Church to police its members to the degree some people would like to see happen, I think we're actually doing a very good job. As the link to the article I first posted (in Post #20) says, "Rabbi Gary Greenebaum, the former national director of interreligious affairs at the American Jewish Committee, watches the LDS database on behalf of the World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors. He has asked church leaders to regularly remind Mormons about the church policy.
He defended the LDS Church, saying the number of names found by Radkey "are infinitesimal" in scope, that the church has "an astonishingly good record" and that the process he oversees is working.
"As somebody who's been involved at this level for many years," Greenebaum said, "I find it sort of extraordinary that someone is still wanting to say that the church is not acting in good faith, because I think it is acting in extraordinarily good faith."
Greenebaum has been watching the church for more than a dozen years at the request of the late Ernest Michel, an Auschwitz survivor who worked on the 1995 agreement. The LDS Church sends Greenebaum a monthly report on submissions of Holocaust victims and updates him on how each case is resolved."
You don't want to stem the tide of people submitting names they are not supposed to?
So even if you are baptized by proxy posthumously, you can still reject the baptism and be admitted to Heaven. Would it be the same or a different Heaven over accepting the baptism? I'll continue the format of the humor dialogue merely for clarity here.
Person: I reject the Baptism
St. Peter: Duly noted! Come on in...
Person: I accept the Baptism
St. Peter: OK, entrance to LDS Heaven is two doors down on the left (or some variant of this directive on St. Peter's part)
It is a different Heaven. Non-Mormon Christians go to dwell in the house of the Lord forever if they believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. This is not enough to dwell in the house of the Lord forever for Mormons. If they do not do the temple marriage and other ordinances, they do not get to experience the fullness of God in the version of 'Heaven' they go to.
Jencam: I do not accept this Baptism. I am already saved through Jesus Christ. He knows my name and will tell our Father this and I will dwell with them forever.
Well, you're wrong -- once again, but I'm sure I'll never convince you of that.
Quote:
According to JS and Sidney Rigdon’s account of a 16 February 1832 vision, those who inherit the terrestrial kingdom are those who “received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.”
It is a different Heaven. Non-Mormon Christians go to dwell in the house of the Lord forever if they believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. This is not enough to dwell in the house of the Lord forever for Mormons. If they do not do the temple marriage and other ordinances, they do not get to experience the fullness of God in the version of 'Heaven' they go to.
I am wondering if you believe my answer in some way skirted the issue, was inaccurate or misleading. For some reason, you seem to feel as if you have to follow up on every response I make and restate everything in your own words, as if I am not fully capable of providing those who ask with correct information on LDS doctrine.
Quote:
Jencam: I do not accept this Baptism. I am already saved through Jesus Christ. He knows my name and will tell our Father this and I will dwell with them forever.
And you may be right. Then again... I guess we'll have to wait and see. Unless God personally pulled you aside and provided you with some insider information, none of us really knows for sure what's going to happen after we die and we should all be mature enough to recognize that. Hey, for all either you or I know, maybe the atheists on the forum are right and when we die, that's it. There is nothing more.
Well, you've misunderstood it, and that's all I'm going to say. I'm tired of you trying to tell me I don't understand my own religion. If what you are saying is true, then the only people who have any hope of going to the Celestial Kingdom are Mormons, and that is simply not what we believe.
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I guess we'll have to wait and see. Unless God personally pulled you aside and provided you with some insider information, none of us really knows for sure what's going to happen after we die and we should all be mature enough to recognize that. Hey, for all either you or I know, maybe the atheists on the forum are right and when we die, that's it. There is nothing more.
